DEATH WITH INTERRUPTIONS by Jose Saramago
Good chat folks--I think most of us enjoyed it more than the book LOL
wernoclue.u says to (19:59): Hola, Jill!
BCCJillster.u says (19:59): YAY Karen So glad to see you
wernoclue.u says to (19:59): Think anyone else will show today?
BCCJillster.u says (19:59): we're not the only ones who finished, right?
BCCJillster: Yes, Chris is coming
wernoclue: No -- Jodi finished and Mari. And I think someone else.
wernoclue: Chris!
BCCJillster: Ta dah, speak of the devil LOL
someonegetchristine: Hi Karen Jill
BCCJillster: Good morning Chris
someonegetchristine: how are ya ??
wernoclue: O.K., what time is it really there?
someonegetchristine: 9 am
BCCJillster: did you bring the strawberries?
BCCJillster: Did I get it right in the email?
someonegetchristine: open wide...
wernoclue: Weird that it keeps being later and later for you when last year it seems like it was sooo early.
BCCJillster: popping
someonegetchristine: yes tks Jill, as always
BCCJillster: we pushed the chat two hours later
wernoclue: Oh. Duh.
BCCJillster: that helped LOL
BCCJillster: Chris, you finished the book didn't you?
someonegetchristine: what time there Jill ??
someonegetchristine: yes I did...
BCCJillster: it's 3 pm Sat
BCCJillster: what did YOU think of the ending?
someonegetchristine: an unusual ending tho'
BCCJillster: Karen and I came up with two versions of what was going on, what'syours?
someonegetchristine: it came full circle didn't it....is that why she went on leave in the first place
wernoclue: That JUST occurred to me -- it began and ended with the same line.
someonegetchristine: she got too involved with her clients...lol
wernoclue: Does the story just repeat and repeat and repeat?
BCCJillster: LOLLL death is a harlot?
someonegetchristine: well, manipulative anyway
wernoclue: But the cellist is the only one she ever seemed to interact with at all.
BCCJillster: but didn't the scythe say she had neer opened that door before (to dress as a woman)
someonegetchristine: somthing like that I remember now
wernoclue: Yes. The door had never before been opened.
someonegetchristine: did the scythe provide the vision ??
BCCJillster: I didn't realize for a while that there were deaths to rule ech country
BCCJillster: and one for humans another for animals etc---a very Christian view
wernoclue: Is it, Jill?
someonegetchristine: I didn't get that, the reference to 2 death identities
someonegetchristine: I didn't know that
BCCJillster: I think so, because the idea of animals not having souls and being different...
BCCJillster: animals not going to heaven etc, isn't that a Christian based idea?
someonegetchristine: yep
someonegetchristine: I wished some of th arguments in the first half had been resolved
*** (20:06):Welcome to New Chatroom , kathylaz.u!
BCCJillster: Chris, 2 death identities?
wernoclue: In the Lovely Bones there were dogs in her heaven weren't there? I don't know the details of religions like that.
BCCJillster: HI HI Kathy
wernoclue: Hi Kathy.
kathylaz: hello
someonegetchristine: Hi kathy !!
someonegetchristine: wasn't there reference to another Death ??
BCCJillster: I think it turned out that there were deaths to rule each country or regiohn
someonegetchristine: ok
wernoclue: Yes -- it was like there was one death per country and another death for animals and an even greater death for the end of time.
BCCJillster: right
someonegetchristine: I forgotten some of the detail now
*** (20:07):Welcome to New Chatroom , irishonstars.bookchatcentral!
wernoclue: Fortunately, I just finished las night.
BCCJillster: I will too as soon as I get some books in my head.
BCCJillster: HI HI Mari
wernoclue: MARI! So glad you could join us.
kathylaz: hi mari
someonegetchristine: Hello Mari
*** (20:08):Welcome to New Chatroom , murraymint11.u!
BCCJillster: OOOO and Jane!
kathylaz: hi jane
wernoclue: And Jane!
someonegetchristine: Hi Jane
irishonstars: hey there all.. here i am with my full bookchat name, lol
murraymint11: hello everyone........
BCCJillster: YAY hands across the world
wernoclue: Really. All across the world.
BCCJillster: Oh right LOL we didn't fix that by gwetting you another name?
kathylaz: kumbaya
someonegetchristine: top and bottom
wernoclue: LOL
BCCJillster: Now we need someone from India
murraymint11: a truly international gathering
irishonstars: life's been nuts Jill, lol
BCCJillster: or China
wernoclue: Or Mags from Austria.
someonegetchristine: UN
irishonstars: I read your email then forgot about it, HA
BCCJillster: I think we do better than the UN
someonegetchristine: indeed lol....
BCCJillster: about the name? LOLLL
wernoclue: LOL So do I
irishonstars: yes! lol
BCCJillster: I'm so glad that bloody election is over
kathylaz: yes indeed
wernoclue: Me, too. It was endless and annoying.
murraymint11: but it was exciting wasn't it?
wernoclue: Absolutely, Jane.
BCCJillster: we have to get them to stop running for so long
someonegetchristine: I enjoyed it !!!
irishonstars: agree four too
kathylaz: yes, but for a long long long time
wernoclue: That's one of the reasons I'm glad it
BCCJillster: Finally I like who won LOL
wernoclue: its over... I could sustain the excitement level.
murraymint11: so do we Brits Jill!
kathylaz: hope he doesn't choose clinton for sec of state....
someonegetchristine: is Hilary to be sec of state?
kathylaz: not because i don't like her
wernoclue: It seems like the entire world is happy about it.
someonegetchristine: oops sorry Kathy...
BCCJillster: it was exhausting and I didn't do a thing but make phone calls
someonegetchristine: you were a volunteer Jill ?
kathylaz: i want him to hold out and make her a supreme court nominee!
BCCJillster: I don't know what to think of Clinton fvor that role....what do you think
kathylaz: i think that would be better for all of us
BCCJillster: She doesn't want that
wernoclue: Kathy, I'm with you. Supreme court would be better than Sec od State.
BCCJillster: She already dismissed it a bit agok I don't know why
murraymint11: I don't have an informed opinion on it
kathylaz: maybe not, but if she leaves senate seat, it may not be smart for democrats right now
wernoclue: I just remember her health care role; she was too strident and rigid.
BCCJillster: I have to drag Tema of Rivals off my shelf
kathylaz: me too
kathylaz: i've been wanting to get to it
BCCJillster: I wondered about the Senate being stripped of its stars
BCCJillster: someone outlined that there's no real role for Hilary in the Senate...no clear path
kathylaz: but, we're here to talk about death
kathylaz: aren't we?
BCCJillster: Kennedy is coming back to do health care
wernoclue: Hey, Jane, I don't have a well informed opinion either, but that doesn't stop me from blabbering.
BCCJillster: LOLLLLLLL
murraymint11: 'blabbering' Karen? Not you...........
wernoclue: Yes, Kathy. But you had to return it unfinished, didn't you?
BCCJillster: Death you say? Did most of us finish?
someonegetchristine: Sen Edward ?
wernoclue: Yes, Chris.
BCCJillster: YupUncle Teddy Kennedy
kathylaz: yes, but i might not be able to get it back. so i don't mind listening, even with spoilers
irishonstars: I sure did and still waiting to find out what the heck the ending was about, lol
wernoclue: There's really not much to spoil.
BCCJillster: determined to come back in Jan to get health care passed
wernoclue: Mari, did you read the spoilers thread?
murraymint11: dont worry Kathy, not much to spoil in this book
BCCJillster: Oh Good Marie--we were taling aobu tyhte ending
irishonstars: there WAS one?? lol
BCCJillster: It's really the tippy top end that is the spoiler
BCCJillster: as of yesterday Mari
irishonstars: o, no i didn't
irishonstars: sorry
BCCJillster: Ok here goes....
murraymint11: but we've all got our own interpretations dont we?
irishonstars: i'd like to hear any / all
wernoclue: Yes, and we'd like to hear yours so spill.
BCCJillster: Yes, let's eqac say what ours is
someonegetchristine: the book was wide open to many interpretations, thankfully !!
BCCJillster: Mine is that she was likke Pinocchio and became human when she fell in loe
BCCJillster: love...and had to retire from her job
BCCJillster: Karen, tell yours
murraymint11: I thought death decided to stay with the cellist, which meant that dying was suspended again
someonegetchristine: I think she just went on leave, she was caught out by her own emotions (temproarily)
wernoclue: I thought she just spent the next day in bed with the guy, and probably the scythe hadn't sent the letters so there was no one to die anyway.
kathylaz: that's like the movie 'meet joe black"
irishonstars: ok, i'm keeping my eyeroll to myself, (joking)
someonegetchristine: LOOL
BCCJillster: LOLLL ok what do you think Happened Mari?
wernoclue: That's o.k., Mari -- I rolled my eyes at myself, too.
irishonstars: lol
BCCJillster: I was so relieve that something human and relatable happened I said OH COOL
irishonstars: it's WHAT i was thinking, but then again, i really didn't like the book
wernoclue: IT is, Kathy -- wasnt that a remake of Death Takes a Holiday.
murraymint11: The final sentence intimated to me that death was suspended again indefinately
BCCJillster: I forgot the ending of the movies
BCCJillster: I thought it was just waiting for her replacement
wernoclue: Yes, Jane. It ended where it began so was it a circular story, destined to repeat?
someonegetchristine: the second half of the book was to explain the first half.....why Death stopped her work in the first place
murraymint11: but who would her replacement be? Not mentioned in the book
wernoclue: It was? I didn't get that. The two halves seemed so unconnected.
irishonstars: the scythe?
BCCJillster: That can't gbe Chris, because she instituted the letters before the cellist
someonegetchristine: yeah but why did she stop her work in the first half ??
murraymint11: chris - do you think the second half took place first then?
BCCJillster: Didn't she do it to 'show' them to appreciate death or something?
wernoclue: Why did she stop? It mentioned it somewhere along the way but I've forgotten.
someonegetchristine: it could have done yeah, it would explain why she stopped her work
BCCJillster: somehting hormonal
murraymint11: lol jill
someonegetchristine: pmt
BCCJillster: well she semmed to have snits for a bag of bones
wernoclue: Capricious
murraymint11: snits?
BCCJillster: exactly
wernoclue: IS that the word I want?
someonegetchristine: snits
BCCJillster: snits=hissy fits
wernoclue: little fits of temper
someonegetchristine: oooh ok
murraymint11: got it
someonegetchristine: tantrums
BCCJillster: what do you call them?
kathylaz: is that a jill word, or real?
wernoclue: It's real.
BCCJillster: LOLLLLL
murraymint11: never heard of it!
someonegetchristine: tantrums, hissy fits, sulks
BCCJillster: Oh my you know me too well
BCCJillster: knickers in a twist
wernoclue: That's o.k., Jane -- I only just figured out what a skirting board was.
murraymint11: lol!
BCCJillster: Right Karen
someonegetchristine: skirting board....lol
kathylaz: a jill sniglet
murraymint11: we learn so much at BCC
wernoclue: YES we do!
BCCJillster: some of it even useful
someonegetchristine: it helps to know the words for when we travel !!
wernoclue: Well, it helps when reading British novels.
irishonstars: now i have to know... what's a skirting board?
BCCJillster: So what the heck was he doing in the first part of the book???
wernoclue: Baseboard, Mari
irishonstars: ahhh
irishonstars: ty
murraymint11: Mari! You must know
irishonstars: lol
murraymint11: Jill, you mean saramago?
BCCJillster: He put out some interesting ideas?
BCCJillster: but in a very boring way...why?
wernoclue: YEs -- but none really felt fully developed to me.
BCCJillster: maybe he lost interest too?
someonegetchristine: agree karen
murraymint11: it was the characters which weren't fully developed for me
wernoclue: Like you said, it was as though he were having a long discussion with himself and it never resolved.
BCCJillster: agree jane
murraymint11: i quite liked the little discussions between politicians and the church
wernoclue: But the only real character was death, don't you think>
someonegetchristine: hard to latch onto any charactersm even the cellist, who had no name
BCCJillster: He's so much better than that...I saw a lot of reviews yesterday that suggested it was his age...I don't think that's fair
irishonstars: disjointed.. i wondered almost the entire time what he was smoking
wernoclue: I did, too, Jane, but I never really did get the maphia/vigilante thing.
BCCJillster: LOLLL
kathylaz: LOL
murraymint11: No Karen, that really confused me
BCCJillster: He was solving things as he thought about them I guess
BCCJillster: what do you mean about the maphia?
wernoclue: Did ti feel solved to you, though?
irishonstars: see, i truly saw that too.. the age thing.
murraymint11: i couldn't figure out who was doing what at the border, and why
someonegetchristine: that was confusing that section
wernoclue: Same here.
BCCJillster: well they kept crossing and burying them...until they realized they didn't have to bury them there
murraymint11: but I didn't have the energy to re-read it
BCCJillster: that's what pissed the other countries off
murraymint11: why do you think it was easier to read Blindness?
BCCJillster: Just carry them over, bring them back, then charge the families at one
BCCJillster: a ton of $$
murraymint11: the writing style was the same
BCCJillster: but he was in much tighter control in the seond half
wernoclue: Was it that similar? I don't remember Blindness being nearly that hard to read.
irishonstars: right, so another money making idea. the control of the maphia
someonegetchristine: I connected with the cave alot easier, the characters were drawn well for a start
kathylaz: is it translated by the same person?
murraymint11: but by the second half, I'd lost patience
someonegetchristine: I believe so kathy
wernoclue: By the second half of this one, Jane?
BCCJillster: I think it was because bothe the Cave and Blindness had characters and tension
murraymint11: yes
BCCJillster: You didn't know what would happen, but something clearly would
BCCJillster: this was more of an essay
wernoclue: But not much even happend here. Right -- more like an essay.
irishonstars: I'd give him another try... maybe read Blindness
murraymint11: More like a text for studying
wernoclue: That one was so worthwhile it's what made me finish this one.
someonegetchristine: it needed something to draw the reader in more
BCCJillster: I have to admit, I don't read essays
wernoclue: Nor do I. Not many short stories, either.
BCCJillster: ditto
murraymint11: Mari, you should give Blindness a try
murraymint11: Funny, I'm not into short stories either!
BCCJillster: I thought the Cave was even easier
wernoclue: IT's Blindness that I thought was worthwhile. Haven't read the Cave
someonegetchristine: yes it was, and the styl didn't bother me so much in the cave
BCCJillster: LOL Jane....too short to really satisfy if you like it
BCCJillster: Kathy what is your little icon? a paint brush?
irishonstars: I will.
wernoclue: True. On the other hand the Wally Lamb I got this week is so long I don't know if I want to start it.
murraymint11: bottle of wine Jill!!!
BCCJillster: Another admission I never read Wally Lamb...blush
BCCJillster: OhHH whine
murraymint11: I've got TWO of his on my TBR shelf
kathylaz: wine bottle
kathylaz: not WHINE
irishonstars: and mine, is Not a beer can... it's a soda can even if it isn't, lol
kathylaz: LOL
wernoclue: Oh you should, Jill. They're SO good.
someonegetchristine: lol
BCCJillster: teee heee
someonegetchristine: it looks like a red wine
BCCJillster: Which did you like best?
kathylaz: always. dry, with a hint of oak and cherry
wernoclue: I Know This Much is True
kathylaz: amarone!
BCCJillster: mmmmmm sounds marvy
murraymint11: She's Come Undone and I Know This Much
someonegetchristine: I've read 'she's come undone' ages ago - huge book
BCCJillster: Ok Ok I guess I'll add them to the mountain
murraymint11: They all seem to be big - maybe why I haven't read them yet
*** (20:30):Welcome to New Chatroom , dlee10.u!
BCCJillster: that's daunting if you don't know the author
BCCJillster: DEB!!!!!
BCCJillster: Yay HOORAY
someonegetchristine: hi deb
wernoclue: A really long book never used to bother me. Now I find myself picking the skinniest ones on my shelf.
kathylaz: hi deb
wernoclue: Hi Deb
irishonstars: I remember liking both... now can't remember them, lol
BCCJillster: long time no speaketh
dlee10: Hi everyone!!
murraymint11: But I trust Karen's judgement
BCCJillster: same here
wernoclue: Thanks Jane.
wernoclue: And Jill
someonegetchristine: Karen can run for president ??
BCCJillster: Deb, did yuou read this one?
murraymint11: I too used to read long epics, but rarely now.
wernoclue: I'd never survive the vetting process, Chris. LOL
BCCJillster: Saints onlhy apply
kathylaz: would you even WANT the job?
dlee10: I started it then skimmed to the end, skipped the middle... so I guess that is a no?
wernoclue: Oh HELL no!
murraymint11: Example - Pillars of the Earth
BCCJillster: Actually Deb, that wasn't a bad idea
dlee10: I liked Pillar of the earth
wernoclue: I did a lot of skimming in Pillars.
murraymint11: so did I, but would I have the energy now?
wernoclue: Can't even rmember if I finished it, it was so long ago.
murraymint11: Age is a terrible thing
kathylaz: skimming pillars. sounds like a skateboarding thing
someonegetchristine: lol jane
wernoclue: LOL Kathy
irishonstars: lol
BCCJillster: MOther nature is having a fit outside--she's determined to knock every last leaf off...TODAY
wernoclue: Agreed Jane.
wernoclue: That happened to us earlier in the week, Jill
dlee10: I just couldn't get into DWI because it took too much energy and I couldn't get a flow going time wise
murraymint11: Back to the book?
BCCJillster: yes please
kathylaz: brb
someonegetchristine: it was hard deb
wernoclue: It took me a ridiculously long time to read it for as short as it was.
murraymint11: Yes Deb, no flow
wernoclue: Was it worth the effort, for those who finished?
murraymint11: Not really.......
BCCJillster: Hmmm, I wouldn't recommend it to anyone
someonegetchristine: I'm glad I finished it - there were some interesting sections
irishonstars: you know my answer, lol
dlee10: I told my hubby that I wasn't smart enough so I really felt better when it seemed quite a few of us had similar issues
someonegetchristine: but wouldn't recommend either
someonegetchristine: I liked the cave and wanted to read this
BCCJillster: I don't think it was smarts Deb--he let us down
wernoclue: I'm with Chris. I'm glad I finally finished, but I could recommend this to anyone.
murraymint11: no such thing as not smart enough Deb
wernoclue: He did let us down.
murraymint11: just not suited
dlee10: I never read any of his other books so I had nothing to base it on
wernoclue: REad Blindness. Also not an easy read but much more engaging than this one.
someonegetchristine: has he written anything since ?
BCCJillster: Well don't base your feeling about him on this
BCCJillster: no this is his latest I think
someonegetchristine: death was published in 2005
wernoclue: I think this is pretty recent, isn't it.
dlee10: when I have time...
murraymint11: read Blindness before you watch the new film
BCCJillster: Ohhh rigt
BCCJillster: the film can't give the same feeling
someonegetchristine: amazing feat in translating this..phew
BCCJillster: only a radio show could
wernoclue: Can you even imagine being his translator?
irishonstars: your right.. i tried watching Blindess last weekend, but wanted to read it first.
dlee10: I don't do movies well. I find it hard to sit still for an hour or 2 in front of a box
wernoclue: I really appreciated Jill's post with his translators comments.
BCCJillster: ooo yw
murraymint11: I'm not sure I'd want to see the film - maybe the dvd later
BCCJillster: Did you thik about how you'd feel if death took a holiday?
BCCJillster: and didn't know if it was returning?
wernoclue: I thought about how I'd feel if I got a violet letter.
murraymint11: Depends on how healthy I was
BCCJillster: LOLLLL thought about it in your gut?
wernoclue: And I definitely decided death is a good thing.
someonegetchristine: lol
BCCJillster: who wants to stay alive as a veggie?
BCCJillster: or worse, in pain
wernoclue: But Jane, none of us are going to stay healthy forever.
irishonstars: Now there was a very interesting point in the book. It's not as if the people improved any... they stayed in their debilitated state. I'd only want a quality of life.
murraymint11: not me, my nana did that for years
dlee10: I look at my 96 year old grandfather. No, when it is my time I want death to come, just come gently
wernoclue: Me, too, Mari.
BCCJillster: the other thing that screwed them up...What will the neighbors think
murraymint11: Agreed
BCCJillster: that's what stopped them from taking their loved ones across the border in the beginning
someonegetchristine: they still had human concerns
wernoclue: YEs. Why do we always worry about that?
murraymint11: I hate that attitude Jill
someonegetchristine: what will people think of us ??
BCCJillster: I was raised and smothered with it
BCCJillster: Right Chris
wernoclue: As was I, maybe that's why I hate it so much.
murraymint11: my parents generation were really hung up on that 'neighbour's thing
BCCJillster: put that before concerns theloved one
kathylaz: ok, comment even tho i haven't read
wernoclue: I think the 50's must have been rampant with it just about everywhere.
BCCJillster: drives me nutso
dlee10: Me too but I have discovered recently that people think of me far less than I had imagined! LOL
murraymint11: Isn't that funny how it's an international thing?
BCCJillster: LOLL Deb, exactly and who cares anyway
irishonstars: same here... and no matter how you try and get away from the feeling, when brought up that way, it sticks with you ... as you age.
kathylaz: was it more of grappling with the decision to choose death rather than just accept it?
someonegetchristine: exactly, they're too preoccipied with their own lives
wernoclue: I'm not sure I know what you mean, Kathy.
someonegetchristine: the baggage we end up carrying thru life...
BCCJillster: It was partly the guilt of choosing death for a loved one...as though they didn't want to care for them
kathylaz: yes, that .... what jill is saying
murraymint11: oh yes, that's right
kathylaz: choice vs. acceptance
wernoclue: Then yes, I agree with Jill's assessment -- plus the what would the neighbors think aspect, too.
BCCJillster: and partly, when they KENW that was the right choice the shame of the neighbor's opinion
kathylaz: if someone just dies, there's no choice involved
BCCJillster: exacgtly
murraymint11: you have to have confidence that you know what's best for your own loved ones
wernoclue: IT demonstrates how much we think LIFE is important, no matter what, even when it isn't. Doesn't it?
irishonstars: and yet how can you make those decisions for another.. a loved one? you can make that decision for yourself...
BCCJillster: they thought that if the loved one disappeared (buried abroad) they could pretend they were still at home cared for
BCCJillster: Mari, by the time they want to die, they can't usually help themselves out
someonegetchristine: some people believe they can make decisions for others
murraymint11: I suppose I was thinking of the baby
someonegetchristine: depends on circumstances, I guess
murraymint11: and the old man who wanted to die
BCCJillster: we often know them well enough to know what they would want....O Jane that wa horrid
wernoclue: Like the first old man on the border. He had just enough left to ask for that trip but he couldn't have done it on his own.
wernoclue: The baby was a lot more difficult.
BCCJillster: My poor mom was begging to die near the end...and I had a real dilemma trying to figure out what to do
dlee10: I wonder if people wouldn't move to that country in order to avoid death
wernoclue: But wait -- doesn't the fact that they died as soon as they crossed the border demonstrate that that's what was supposed to happen.
BCCJillster: I wondered that too Deb
irishonstars: here's an interesting personal thing. years ago, i was told by my mother that WHEN she got to be a burden... she wanted to be placed in a facilty that could care for her. at almost 93 she apparently's changed her mind...
wernoclue: It was still fated, with just a bit of a helpig hand.
murraymint11: We have a few cases of people being taken to Switzerland so they can have a aided suicide
BCCJillster: It seems only right to let them make the choice...
BCCJillster: we wouldn't put our dogs through that
kathylaz: when death is an intangible concept, it seems easy to make that choice.
someonegetchristine: I don't want to sit around as a veggie.
BCCJillster: Mari, what does she want now?
dlee10: wasn't there a bill for assisted suicide in WA? recently?
kathylaz: when death is near, is real, not so easy
murraymint11: and recently, a 13-year old girl
irishonstars: she wants me to be her slave 24/7, lol
wernoclue: Why Jane?
BCCJillster: ruh oh Mari
murraymint11: she's terminally ill, and apparently mature enough to make a decision not to have a heart transplant
BCCJillster: Oh I saw that headline but didn't read the story
murraymint11: parents agree to what she wants to do
someonegetchristine: I saw that story on the news here jane
BCCJillster: why didn't she want to take the chance?
irishonstars: i sound bitter, but it isn't.... let's just say that i've watched all types of dying in my life. and you and your love one's minds don't neccessarily stay the same as e1 gets older...
wernoclue: That would be an extremely tough thing as a parent.
murraymint11: reminded me so much of My Sisters Keeper
kathylaz: wow. exactly
BCCJillster: I know Mari..it aint easy
wernoclue: That's what I was thinking, too, Jane.
someonegetchristine: I think she wanted to have some quality of life for a bit, away from all treatments etc
BCCJillster: hmm short term oer long?
wernoclue: Do you think the 13 yr old has read tht book?
murraymint11: Wow, interesting question!
murraymint11: Maybe she had
BCCJillster: that'z kind of scary huh
wernoclue: Yeah, it is in a way. I'll be wondering now if she read it.
BCCJillster: imagine the responsibility the author would feel if she knew?
wernoclue: I was just thinking the same thing. My boss know the author fairly well.
BCCJillster: is the girl still alive?
murraymint11: It was interesting in DWI that the 1-week warning didn't really work
BCCJillster: Oh Karen, how interesting
wernoclue: No, not in the way death intended.
murraymint11: yes Jill
BCCJillster: Humans are such a pain that way Jane
BCCJillster: would you want time to prepare?
murraymint11: contrary
wernoclue: But I wasnt surprised that some turned to hedonism. Or however you spell that.
BCCJillster: you got it right I think
wernoclue: I hope I would make best use of that week. Like go to Mexico or something. LOL
BCCJillster: LOLL Mexico, next stop heaven
murraymint11: I think I would want that time. To reassure my loved ones
kathylaz: LOL
wernoclue: That sound good Jane, I just don't really know how you would do that. Especially with my kids.
murraymint11: It's so hard when a family loses someone unexpectedly
BCCJillster: I think I'd just want enough time to tell them I love them and that they should party on
murraymint11: Absolutely Jill
someonegetchristine: yeah I agree, some time to say goodbyes
wernoclue: Exactly, Jill, but I was thinking of what a basket case my DD would be in that situation.
murraymint11: Oh Karen.
murraymint11: You could choose NOT to tell her of course
wernoclue: But which is worse -- knowing for a week or having it unexpected? I guess it's better to get old so that your kids start *wishing* you'd die. LOL
BCCJillster: the last thing in the world would be being in charge of death...
wernoclue: So -- what was Saramago trying to accomplish with this book?
someonegetchristine: At times I thought he was just amusing himself
BCCJillster: I think so too Chris
BCCJillster: literally musing
murraymint11: Ramblings of thoughts
BCCJillster: so why was the second half so cogent?
wernoclue: I think so, too. Musing and amusing... so he had no real intent.
murraymint11: cogent?
BCCJillster: Just to make us think maybe?
irishonstars: he changed his meds?
someonegetchristine: humansing Death ?
irishonstars: (kidding!)
BCCJillster: I thought it was much more tightly woven
murraymint11: lol mari!
wernoclue: I thought the first and second half were two different books and didn't necessarily find the second half cogent.
someonegetchristine: humanising
wernoclue: Mari's probably right! LOL
irishonstars: lol, sorry!
BCCJillster: Maybe I didn't use cogent right...
BCCJillster: LOL Mari
BCCJillster: to me it was tighter, a controlled story that made sense
dlee10: I know I didn't really read but... I felt like the two halves were novellas that had been stuck together to make a saleable book
wernoclue: Agree wiuth Deb.,
murraymint11: me too
BCCJillster: very loosely tied..a.gree
someonegetchristine: they could have stood on their own quite well
someonegetchristine: he has lots of clver ideas though...
wernoclue: But the first half did need more work. I know what jill means.
BCCJillster: and if they had been on their own, I wouldn't have bougt them LOL
irishonstars: lol!
murraymint11: me neither Jill!
wernoclue: It is a clever idea. I just wish he'd taken it all the way.
someonegetchristine: they would have been quick reads...lol
BCCJillster: I love his tongue in cheek though
dlee10: I used the library anyway LOL
wernoclue: Oh, yes, there were lots of chuckles along the way.
BCCJillster: Kanga's on lion watch
wernoclue: Any more sightings of the lion>
murraymint11: Ay?
BCCJillster: or squirrel
someonegetchristine: omg, does she know what to look for !!
kathylaz: ok, i'm backing out...college football day....enjoy the rest of the weekend!
BCCJillster: we haven't discussed it Chris
wernoclue: Have fun, Kathy.
someonegetchristine: lol Jill
BCCJillster: Tahnks for coming Kathy
irishonstars: hagd Kathy
someonegetchristine: bye Kathy
murraymint11: cheerio Kathy
BCCJillster: I love that you folks can get here on Sat/Sun
someonegetchristine: you'll need to school her on 'stranger danger'...lol
BCCJillster: I promise the next book is much lighter
someonegetchristine: kanga that is...
*** (20:57):kathylaz.u quit the room
murraymint11: I'm off in a minute to watch the new series of 'Outnumbered'
BCCJillster: big---stay away!
wernoclue: Jill, You've already read 1`3th Tale haven't you?
BCCJillster: yup
someonegetchristine: is it good ??
murraymint11: So have Karen
BCCJillster: it's a twisty tale
dlee10: Oh, I have to go. The hubby is home! See (or type)) to you later!
wernoclue: Me, too. But I'm going to try to skim it again.
BCCJillster: byeee
*** (20:58):dlee10.u quit the room
wernoclue: Bye Deb
BCCJillster: me too karen
irishonstars: take care... and have great days/evenings!
someonegetchristine: bye deb
BCCJillster: come post more Mari
murraymint11: And I'm up for a re-read too. Loved it first time
BCCJillster: Oh you too?
BCCJillster: would you call it gothic?
murraymint11: In a way, yes
wernoclue: I guess I should get going, too. Lots to do today since we leave on Tuesday.
someonegetchristine: so how many of us haven't read it I wonder ??
irishonstars: I DO love this group! You are all great
wernoclue: Chris, have you read it.
irishonstars: I haven't
BCCJillster: Oh karen when will you be back?
someonegetchristine: no Karen
BCCJillster: we love you too Mari
wernoclue: Thanks Mari. We're very glad to have you
irishonstars: but i have it
irishonstars: ty!
murraymint11: mixed in with Wuthering Heights/Jane Eyre/Rebecca
BCCJillster: LOL good points
someonegetchristine: ok..like that
BCCJillster: ooo LOG i have to save the log
wernoclue: I've never read Wuthering Heights. I should do that some day.
Good chat folks--I think most of us enjoyed it more than the book LOL
wernoclue.u says to (19:59): Hola, Jill!
BCCJillster.u says (19:59): YAY Karen So glad to see you
wernoclue.u says to (19:59): Think anyone else will show today?
BCCJillster.u says (19:59): we're not the only ones who finished, right?
BCCJillster: Yes, Chris is coming
wernoclue: No -- Jodi finished and Mari. And I think someone else.
wernoclue: Chris!
BCCJillster: Ta dah, speak of the devil LOL
someonegetchristine: Hi Karen Jill
BCCJillster: Good morning Chris
someonegetchristine: how are ya ??
wernoclue: O.K., what time is it really there?
someonegetchristine: 9 am
BCCJillster: did you bring the strawberries?
BCCJillster: Did I get it right in the email?
someonegetchristine: open wide...
wernoclue: Weird that it keeps being later and later for you when last year it seems like it was sooo early.
BCCJillster: popping
someonegetchristine: yes tks Jill, as always
BCCJillster: we pushed the chat two hours later
wernoclue: Oh. Duh.
BCCJillster: that helped LOL
BCCJillster: Chris, you finished the book didn't you?
someonegetchristine: what time there Jill ??
someonegetchristine: yes I did...
BCCJillster: it's 3 pm Sat
BCCJillster: what did YOU think of the ending?
someonegetchristine: an unusual ending tho'
BCCJillster: Karen and I came up with two versions of what was going on, what'syours?
someonegetchristine: it came full circle didn't it....is that why she went on leave in the first place
wernoclue: That JUST occurred to me -- it began and ended with the same line.
someonegetchristine: she got too involved with her clients...lol
wernoclue: Does the story just repeat and repeat and repeat?
BCCJillster: LOLLL death is a harlot?
someonegetchristine: well, manipulative anyway
wernoclue: But the cellist is the only one she ever seemed to interact with at all.
BCCJillster: but didn't the scythe say she had neer opened that door before (to dress as a woman)
someonegetchristine: somthing like that I remember now
wernoclue: Yes. The door had never before been opened.
someonegetchristine: did the scythe provide the vision ??
BCCJillster: I didn't realize for a while that there were deaths to rule ech country
BCCJillster: and one for humans another for animals etc---a very Christian view
wernoclue: Is it, Jill?
someonegetchristine: I didn't get that, the reference to 2 death identities
someonegetchristine: I didn't know that
BCCJillster: I think so, because the idea of animals not having souls and being different...
BCCJillster: animals not going to heaven etc, isn't that a Christian based idea?
someonegetchristine: yep
someonegetchristine: I wished some of th arguments in the first half had been resolved
*** (20:06):Welcome to New Chatroom , kathylaz.u!
BCCJillster: Chris, 2 death identities?
wernoclue: In the Lovely Bones there were dogs in her heaven weren't there? I don't know the details of religions like that.
BCCJillster: HI HI Kathy
wernoclue: Hi Kathy.
kathylaz: hello
someonegetchristine: Hi kathy !!
someonegetchristine: wasn't there reference to another Death ??
BCCJillster: I think it turned out that there were deaths to rule each country or regiohn
someonegetchristine: ok
wernoclue: Yes -- it was like there was one death per country and another death for animals and an even greater death for the end of time.
BCCJillster: right
someonegetchristine: I forgotten some of the detail now
*** (20:07):Welcome to New Chatroom , irishonstars.bookchatcentral!
wernoclue: Fortunately, I just finished las night.
BCCJillster: I will too as soon as I get some books in my head.
BCCJillster: HI HI Mari
wernoclue: MARI! So glad you could join us.
kathylaz: hi mari
someonegetchristine: Hello Mari
*** (20:08):Welcome to New Chatroom , murraymint11.u!
BCCJillster: OOOO and Jane!
kathylaz: hi jane
wernoclue: And Jane!
someonegetchristine: Hi Jane
irishonstars: hey there all.. here i am with my full bookchat name, lol
murraymint11: hello everyone........
BCCJillster: YAY hands across the world
wernoclue: Really. All across the world.
BCCJillster: Oh right LOL we didn't fix that by gwetting you another name?
kathylaz: kumbaya
someonegetchristine: top and bottom
wernoclue: LOL
BCCJillster: Now we need someone from India
murraymint11: a truly international gathering
irishonstars: life's been nuts Jill, lol
BCCJillster: or China
wernoclue: Or Mags from Austria.
someonegetchristine: UN
irishonstars: I read your email then forgot about it, HA
BCCJillster: I think we do better than the UN
someonegetchristine: indeed lol....
BCCJillster: about the name? LOLLL
wernoclue: LOL So do I
irishonstars: yes! lol
BCCJillster: I'm so glad that bloody election is over
kathylaz: yes indeed
wernoclue: Me, too. It was endless and annoying.
murraymint11: but it was exciting wasn't it?
wernoclue: Absolutely, Jane.
BCCJillster: we have to get them to stop running for so long
someonegetchristine: I enjoyed it !!!
irishonstars: agree four too
kathylaz: yes, but for a long long long time
wernoclue: That's one of the reasons I'm glad it
BCCJillster: Finally I like who won LOL
wernoclue: its over... I could sustain the excitement level.
murraymint11: so do we Brits Jill!
kathylaz: hope he doesn't choose clinton for sec of state....
someonegetchristine: is Hilary to be sec of state?
kathylaz: not because i don't like her
wernoclue: It seems like the entire world is happy about it.
someonegetchristine: oops sorry Kathy...
BCCJillster: it was exhausting and I didn't do a thing but make phone calls
someonegetchristine: you were a volunteer Jill ?
kathylaz: i want him to hold out and make her a supreme court nominee!
BCCJillster: I don't know what to think of Clinton fvor that role....what do you think
kathylaz: i think that would be better for all of us
BCCJillster: She doesn't want that
wernoclue: Kathy, I'm with you. Supreme court would be better than Sec od State.
BCCJillster: She already dismissed it a bit agok I don't know why
murraymint11: I don't have an informed opinion on it
kathylaz: maybe not, but if she leaves senate seat, it may not be smart for democrats right now
wernoclue: I just remember her health care role; she was too strident and rigid.
BCCJillster: I have to drag Tema of Rivals off my shelf
kathylaz: me too
kathylaz: i've been wanting to get to it
BCCJillster: I wondered about the Senate being stripped of its stars
BCCJillster: someone outlined that there's no real role for Hilary in the Senate...no clear path
kathylaz: but, we're here to talk about death
kathylaz: aren't we?
BCCJillster: Kennedy is coming back to do health care
wernoclue: Hey, Jane, I don't have a well informed opinion either, but that doesn't stop me from blabbering.
BCCJillster: LOLLLLLLL
murraymint11: 'blabbering' Karen? Not you...........
wernoclue: Yes, Kathy. But you had to return it unfinished, didn't you?
BCCJillster: Death you say? Did most of us finish?
someonegetchristine: Sen Edward ?
wernoclue: Yes, Chris.
BCCJillster: YupUncle Teddy Kennedy
kathylaz: yes, but i might not be able to get it back. so i don't mind listening, even with spoilers
irishonstars: I sure did and still waiting to find out what the heck the ending was about, lol
wernoclue: There's really not much to spoil.
BCCJillster: determined to come back in Jan to get health care passed
wernoclue: Mari, did you read the spoilers thread?
murraymint11: dont worry Kathy, not much to spoil in this book
BCCJillster: Oh Good Marie--we were taling aobu tyhte ending
irishonstars: there WAS one?? lol
BCCJillster: It's really the tippy top end that is the spoiler
BCCJillster: as of yesterday Mari
irishonstars: o, no i didn't
irishonstars: sorry
BCCJillster: Ok here goes....
murraymint11: but we've all got our own interpretations dont we?
irishonstars: i'd like to hear any / all
wernoclue: Yes, and we'd like to hear yours so spill.
BCCJillster: Yes, let's eqac say what ours is
someonegetchristine: the book was wide open to many interpretations, thankfully !!
BCCJillster: Mine is that she was likke Pinocchio and became human when she fell in loe
BCCJillster: love...and had to retire from her job
BCCJillster: Karen, tell yours
murraymint11: I thought death decided to stay with the cellist, which meant that dying was suspended again
someonegetchristine: I think she just went on leave, she was caught out by her own emotions (temproarily)
wernoclue: I thought she just spent the next day in bed with the guy, and probably the scythe hadn't sent the letters so there was no one to die anyway.
kathylaz: that's like the movie 'meet joe black"
irishonstars: ok, i'm keeping my eyeroll to myself, (joking)
someonegetchristine: LOOL
BCCJillster: LOLLL ok what do you think Happened Mari?
wernoclue: That's o.k., Mari -- I rolled my eyes at myself, too.
irishonstars: lol
BCCJillster: I was so relieve that something human and relatable happened I said OH COOL
irishonstars: it's WHAT i was thinking, but then again, i really didn't like the book
wernoclue: IT is, Kathy -- wasnt that a remake of Death Takes a Holiday.
murraymint11: The final sentence intimated to me that death was suspended again indefinately
BCCJillster: I forgot the ending of the movies
BCCJillster: I thought it was just waiting for her replacement
wernoclue: Yes, Jane. It ended where it began so was it a circular story, destined to repeat?
someonegetchristine: the second half of the book was to explain the first half.....why Death stopped her work in the first place
murraymint11: but who would her replacement be? Not mentioned in the book
wernoclue: It was? I didn't get that. The two halves seemed so unconnected.
irishonstars: the scythe?
BCCJillster: That can't gbe Chris, because she instituted the letters before the cellist
someonegetchristine: yeah but why did she stop her work in the first half ??
murraymint11: chris - do you think the second half took place first then?
BCCJillster: Didn't she do it to 'show' them to appreciate death or something?
wernoclue: Why did she stop? It mentioned it somewhere along the way but I've forgotten.
someonegetchristine: it could have done yeah, it would explain why she stopped her work
BCCJillster: somehting hormonal
murraymint11: lol jill
someonegetchristine: pmt
BCCJillster: well she semmed to have snits for a bag of bones
wernoclue: Capricious
murraymint11: snits?
BCCJillster: exactly
wernoclue: IS that the word I want?
someonegetchristine: snits
BCCJillster: snits=hissy fits
wernoclue: little fits of temper
someonegetchristine: oooh ok
murraymint11: got it
someonegetchristine: tantrums
BCCJillster: what do you call them?
kathylaz: is that a jill word, or real?
wernoclue: It's real.
BCCJillster: LOLLLLL
murraymint11: never heard of it!
someonegetchristine: tantrums, hissy fits, sulks
BCCJillster: Oh my you know me too well
BCCJillster: knickers in a twist
wernoclue: That's o.k., Jane -- I only just figured out what a skirting board was.
murraymint11: lol!
BCCJillster: Right Karen
someonegetchristine: skirting board....lol
kathylaz: a jill sniglet
murraymint11: we learn so much at BCC
wernoclue: YES we do!
BCCJillster: some of it even useful
someonegetchristine: it helps to know the words for when we travel !!
wernoclue: Well, it helps when reading British novels.
irishonstars: now i have to know... what's a skirting board?
BCCJillster: So what the heck was he doing in the first part of the book???
wernoclue: Baseboard, Mari
irishonstars: ahhh
irishonstars: ty
murraymint11: Mari! You must know
irishonstars: lol
murraymint11: Jill, you mean saramago?
BCCJillster: He put out some interesting ideas?
BCCJillster: but in a very boring way...why?
wernoclue: YEs -- but none really felt fully developed to me.
BCCJillster: maybe he lost interest too?
someonegetchristine: agree karen
murraymint11: it was the characters which weren't fully developed for me
wernoclue: Like you said, it was as though he were having a long discussion with himself and it never resolved.
BCCJillster: agree jane
murraymint11: i quite liked the little discussions between politicians and the church
wernoclue: But the only real character was death, don't you think>
someonegetchristine: hard to latch onto any charactersm even the cellist, who had no name
BCCJillster: He's so much better than that...I saw a lot of reviews yesterday that suggested it was his age...I don't think that's fair
irishonstars: disjointed.. i wondered almost the entire time what he was smoking
wernoclue: I did, too, Jane, but I never really did get the maphia/vigilante thing.
BCCJillster: LOLLL
kathylaz: LOL
murraymint11: No Karen, that really confused me
BCCJillster: He was solving things as he thought about them I guess
BCCJillster: what do you mean about the maphia?
wernoclue: Did ti feel solved to you, though?
irishonstars: see, i truly saw that too.. the age thing.
murraymint11: i couldn't figure out who was doing what at the border, and why
someonegetchristine: that was confusing that section
wernoclue: Same here.
BCCJillster: well they kept crossing and burying them...until they realized they didn't have to bury them there
murraymint11: but I didn't have the energy to re-read it
BCCJillster: that's what pissed the other countries off
murraymint11: why do you think it was easier to read Blindness?
BCCJillster: Just carry them over, bring them back, then charge the families at one
BCCJillster: a ton of $$
murraymint11: the writing style was the same
BCCJillster: but he was in much tighter control in the seond half
wernoclue: Was it that similar? I don't remember Blindness being nearly that hard to read.
irishonstars: right, so another money making idea. the control of the maphia
someonegetchristine: I connected with the cave alot easier, the characters were drawn well for a start
kathylaz: is it translated by the same person?
murraymint11: but by the second half, I'd lost patience
someonegetchristine: I believe so kathy
wernoclue: By the second half of this one, Jane?
BCCJillster: I think it was because bothe the Cave and Blindness had characters and tension
murraymint11: yes
BCCJillster: You didn't know what would happen, but something clearly would
BCCJillster: this was more of an essay
wernoclue: But not much even happend here. Right -- more like an essay.
irishonstars: I'd give him another try... maybe read Blindness
murraymint11: More like a text for studying
wernoclue: That one was so worthwhile it's what made me finish this one.
someonegetchristine: it needed something to draw the reader in more
BCCJillster: I have to admit, I don't read essays
wernoclue: Nor do I. Not many short stories, either.
BCCJillster: ditto
murraymint11: Mari, you should give Blindness a try
murraymint11: Funny, I'm not into short stories either!
BCCJillster: I thought the Cave was even easier
wernoclue: IT's Blindness that I thought was worthwhile. Haven't read the Cave
someonegetchristine: yes it was, and the styl didn't bother me so much in the cave
BCCJillster: LOL Jane....too short to really satisfy if you like it
BCCJillster: Kathy what is your little icon? a paint brush?
irishonstars: I will.
wernoclue: True. On the other hand the Wally Lamb I got this week is so long I don't know if I want to start it.
murraymint11: bottle of wine Jill!!!
BCCJillster: Another admission I never read Wally Lamb...blush
BCCJillster: OhHH whine
murraymint11: I've got TWO of his on my TBR shelf
kathylaz: wine bottle
kathylaz: not WHINE
irishonstars: and mine, is Not a beer can... it's a soda can even if it isn't, lol
kathylaz: LOL
wernoclue: Oh you should, Jill. They're SO good.
someonegetchristine: lol
BCCJillster: teee heee
someonegetchristine: it looks like a red wine
BCCJillster: Which did you like best?
kathylaz: always. dry, with a hint of oak and cherry
wernoclue: I Know This Much is True
kathylaz: amarone!
BCCJillster: mmmmmm sounds marvy
murraymint11: She's Come Undone and I Know This Much
someonegetchristine: I've read 'she's come undone' ages ago - huge book
BCCJillster: Ok Ok I guess I'll add them to the mountain
murraymint11: They all seem to be big - maybe why I haven't read them yet
*** (20:30):Welcome to New Chatroom , dlee10.u!
BCCJillster: that's daunting if you don't know the author
BCCJillster: DEB!!!!!
BCCJillster: Yay HOORAY
someonegetchristine: hi deb
wernoclue: A really long book never used to bother me. Now I find myself picking the skinniest ones on my shelf.
kathylaz: hi deb
wernoclue: Hi Deb
irishonstars: I remember liking both... now can't remember them, lol
BCCJillster: long time no speaketh
dlee10: Hi everyone!!
murraymint11: But I trust Karen's judgement
BCCJillster: same here
wernoclue: Thanks Jane.
wernoclue: And Jill
someonegetchristine: Karen can run for president ??
BCCJillster: Deb, did yuou read this one?
murraymint11: I too used to read long epics, but rarely now.
wernoclue: I'd never survive the vetting process, Chris. LOL
BCCJillster: Saints onlhy apply
kathylaz: would you even WANT the job?
dlee10: I started it then skimmed to the end, skipped the middle... so I guess that is a no?
wernoclue: Oh HELL no!
murraymint11: Example - Pillars of the Earth
BCCJillster: Actually Deb, that wasn't a bad idea
dlee10: I liked Pillar of the earth
wernoclue: I did a lot of skimming in Pillars.
murraymint11: so did I, but would I have the energy now?
wernoclue: Can't even rmember if I finished it, it was so long ago.
murraymint11: Age is a terrible thing
kathylaz: skimming pillars. sounds like a skateboarding thing
someonegetchristine: lol jane
wernoclue: LOL Kathy
irishonstars: lol
BCCJillster: MOther nature is having a fit outside--she's determined to knock every last leaf off...TODAY
wernoclue: Agreed Jane.
wernoclue: That happened to us earlier in the week, Jill
dlee10: I just couldn't get into DWI because it took too much energy and I couldn't get a flow going time wise
murraymint11: Back to the book?
BCCJillster: yes please
kathylaz: brb
someonegetchristine: it was hard deb
wernoclue: It took me a ridiculously long time to read it for as short as it was.
murraymint11: Yes Deb, no flow
wernoclue: Was it worth the effort, for those who finished?
murraymint11: Not really.......
BCCJillster: Hmmm, I wouldn't recommend it to anyone
someonegetchristine: I'm glad I finished it - there were some interesting sections
irishonstars: you know my answer, lol
dlee10: I told my hubby that I wasn't smart enough so I really felt better when it seemed quite a few of us had similar issues
someonegetchristine: but wouldn't recommend either
someonegetchristine: I liked the cave and wanted to read this
BCCJillster: I don't think it was smarts Deb--he let us down
wernoclue: I'm with Chris. I'm glad I finally finished, but I could recommend this to anyone.
murraymint11: no such thing as not smart enough Deb
wernoclue: He did let us down.
murraymint11: just not suited
dlee10: I never read any of his other books so I had nothing to base it on
wernoclue: REad Blindness. Also not an easy read but much more engaging than this one.
someonegetchristine: has he written anything since ?
BCCJillster: Well don't base your feeling about him on this
BCCJillster: no this is his latest I think
someonegetchristine: death was published in 2005
wernoclue: I think this is pretty recent, isn't it.
dlee10: when I have time...
murraymint11: read Blindness before you watch the new film
BCCJillster: Ohhh rigt
BCCJillster: the film can't give the same feeling
someonegetchristine: amazing feat in translating this..phew
BCCJillster: only a radio show could
wernoclue: Can you even imagine being his translator?
irishonstars: your right.. i tried watching Blindess last weekend, but wanted to read it first.
dlee10: I don't do movies well. I find it hard to sit still for an hour or 2 in front of a box
wernoclue: I really appreciated Jill's post with his translators comments.
BCCJillster: ooo yw
murraymint11: I'm not sure I'd want to see the film - maybe the dvd later
BCCJillster: Did you thik about how you'd feel if death took a holiday?
BCCJillster: and didn't know if it was returning?
wernoclue: I thought about how I'd feel if I got a violet letter.
murraymint11: Depends on how healthy I was
BCCJillster: LOLLLL thought about it in your gut?
wernoclue: And I definitely decided death is a good thing.
someonegetchristine: lol
BCCJillster: who wants to stay alive as a veggie?
BCCJillster: or worse, in pain
wernoclue: But Jane, none of us are going to stay healthy forever.
irishonstars: Now there was a very interesting point in the book. It's not as if the people improved any... they stayed in their debilitated state. I'd only want a quality of life.
murraymint11: not me, my nana did that for years
dlee10: I look at my 96 year old grandfather. No, when it is my time I want death to come, just come gently
wernoclue: Me, too, Mari.
BCCJillster: the other thing that screwed them up...What will the neighbors think
murraymint11: Agreed
BCCJillster: that's what stopped them from taking their loved ones across the border in the beginning
someonegetchristine: they still had human concerns
wernoclue: YEs. Why do we always worry about that?
murraymint11: I hate that attitude Jill
someonegetchristine: what will people think of us ??
BCCJillster: I was raised and smothered with it
BCCJillster: Right Chris
wernoclue: As was I, maybe that's why I hate it so much.
murraymint11: my parents generation were really hung up on that 'neighbour's thing
BCCJillster: put that before concerns theloved one
kathylaz: ok, comment even tho i haven't read
wernoclue: I think the 50's must have been rampant with it just about everywhere.
BCCJillster: drives me nutso
dlee10: Me too but I have discovered recently that people think of me far less than I had imagined! LOL
murraymint11: Isn't that funny how it's an international thing?
BCCJillster: LOLL Deb, exactly and who cares anyway
irishonstars: same here... and no matter how you try and get away from the feeling, when brought up that way, it sticks with you ... as you age.
kathylaz: was it more of grappling with the decision to choose death rather than just accept it?
someonegetchristine: exactly, they're too preoccipied with their own lives
wernoclue: I'm not sure I know what you mean, Kathy.
someonegetchristine: the baggage we end up carrying thru life...
BCCJillster: It was partly the guilt of choosing death for a loved one...as though they didn't want to care for them
kathylaz: yes, that .... what jill is saying
murraymint11: oh yes, that's right
kathylaz: choice vs. acceptance
wernoclue: Then yes, I agree with Jill's assessment -- plus the what would the neighbors think aspect, too.
BCCJillster: and partly, when they KENW that was the right choice the shame of the neighbor's opinion
kathylaz: if someone just dies, there's no choice involved
BCCJillster: exacgtly
murraymint11: you have to have confidence that you know what's best for your own loved ones
wernoclue: IT demonstrates how much we think LIFE is important, no matter what, even when it isn't. Doesn't it?
irishonstars: and yet how can you make those decisions for another.. a loved one? you can make that decision for yourself...
BCCJillster: they thought that if the loved one disappeared (buried abroad) they could pretend they were still at home cared for
BCCJillster: Mari, by the time they want to die, they can't usually help themselves out
someonegetchristine: some people believe they can make decisions for others
murraymint11: I suppose I was thinking of the baby
someonegetchristine: depends on circumstances, I guess
murraymint11: and the old man who wanted to die
BCCJillster: we often know them well enough to know what they would want....O Jane that wa horrid
wernoclue: Like the first old man on the border. He had just enough left to ask for that trip but he couldn't have done it on his own.
wernoclue: The baby was a lot more difficult.
BCCJillster: My poor mom was begging to die near the end...and I had a real dilemma trying to figure out what to do
dlee10: I wonder if people wouldn't move to that country in order to avoid death
wernoclue: But wait -- doesn't the fact that they died as soon as they crossed the border demonstrate that that's what was supposed to happen.
BCCJillster: I wondered that too Deb
irishonstars: here's an interesting personal thing. years ago, i was told by my mother that WHEN she got to be a burden... she wanted to be placed in a facilty that could care for her. at almost 93 she apparently's changed her mind...
wernoclue: It was still fated, with just a bit of a helpig hand.
murraymint11: We have a few cases of people being taken to Switzerland so they can have a aided suicide
BCCJillster: It seems only right to let them make the choice...
BCCJillster: we wouldn't put our dogs through that
kathylaz: when death is an intangible concept, it seems easy to make that choice.
someonegetchristine: I don't want to sit around as a veggie.
BCCJillster: Mari, what does she want now?
dlee10: wasn't there a bill for assisted suicide in WA? recently?
kathylaz: when death is near, is real, not so easy
murraymint11: and recently, a 13-year old girl
irishonstars: she wants me to be her slave 24/7, lol
wernoclue: Why Jane?
BCCJillster: ruh oh Mari
murraymint11: she's terminally ill, and apparently mature enough to make a decision not to have a heart transplant
BCCJillster: Oh I saw that headline but didn't read the story
murraymint11: parents agree to what she wants to do
someonegetchristine: I saw that story on the news here jane
BCCJillster: why didn't she want to take the chance?
irishonstars: i sound bitter, but it isn't.... let's just say that i've watched all types of dying in my life. and you and your love one's minds don't neccessarily stay the same as e1 gets older...
wernoclue: That would be an extremely tough thing as a parent.
murraymint11: reminded me so much of My Sisters Keeper
kathylaz: wow. exactly
BCCJillster: I know Mari..it aint easy
wernoclue: That's what I was thinking, too, Jane.
someonegetchristine: I think she wanted to have some quality of life for a bit, away from all treatments etc
BCCJillster: hmm short term oer long?
wernoclue: Do you think the 13 yr old has read tht book?
murraymint11: Wow, interesting question!
murraymint11: Maybe she had
BCCJillster: that'z kind of scary huh
wernoclue: Yeah, it is in a way. I'll be wondering now if she read it.
BCCJillster: imagine the responsibility the author would feel if she knew?
wernoclue: I was just thinking the same thing. My boss know the author fairly well.
BCCJillster: is the girl still alive?
murraymint11: It was interesting in DWI that the 1-week warning didn't really work
BCCJillster: Oh Karen, how interesting
wernoclue: No, not in the way death intended.
murraymint11: yes Jill
BCCJillster: Humans are such a pain that way Jane
BCCJillster: would you want time to prepare?
murraymint11: contrary
wernoclue: But I wasnt surprised that some turned to hedonism. Or however you spell that.
BCCJillster: you got it right I think
wernoclue: I hope I would make best use of that week. Like go to Mexico or something. LOL
BCCJillster: LOLL Mexico, next stop heaven
murraymint11: I think I would want that time. To reassure my loved ones
kathylaz: LOL
wernoclue: That sound good Jane, I just don't really know how you would do that. Especially with my kids.
murraymint11: It's so hard when a family loses someone unexpectedly
BCCJillster: I think I'd just want enough time to tell them I love them and that they should party on
murraymint11: Absolutely Jill
someonegetchristine: yeah I agree, some time to say goodbyes
wernoclue: Exactly, Jill, but I was thinking of what a basket case my DD would be in that situation.
murraymint11: Oh Karen.
murraymint11: You could choose NOT to tell her of course
wernoclue: But which is worse -- knowing for a week or having it unexpected? I guess it's better to get old so that your kids start *wishing* you'd die. LOL
BCCJillster: the last thing in the world would be being in charge of death...
wernoclue: So -- what was Saramago trying to accomplish with this book?
someonegetchristine: At times I thought he was just amusing himself
BCCJillster: I think so too Chris
BCCJillster: literally musing
murraymint11: Ramblings of thoughts
BCCJillster: so why was the second half so cogent?
wernoclue: I think so, too. Musing and amusing... so he had no real intent.
murraymint11: cogent?
BCCJillster: Just to make us think maybe?
irishonstars: he changed his meds?
someonegetchristine: humansing Death ?
irishonstars: (kidding!)
BCCJillster: I thought it was much more tightly woven
murraymint11: lol mari!
wernoclue: I thought the first and second half were two different books and didn't necessarily find the second half cogent.
someonegetchristine: humanising
wernoclue: Mari's probably right! LOL
irishonstars: lol, sorry!
BCCJillster: Maybe I didn't use cogent right...
BCCJillster: LOL Mari
BCCJillster: to me it was tighter, a controlled story that made sense
dlee10: I know I didn't really read but... I felt like the two halves were novellas that had been stuck together to make a saleable book
wernoclue: Agree wiuth Deb.,
murraymint11: me too
BCCJillster: very loosely tied..a.gree
someonegetchristine: they could have stood on their own quite well
someonegetchristine: he has lots of clver ideas though...
wernoclue: But the first half did need more work. I know what jill means.
BCCJillster: and if they had been on their own, I wouldn't have bougt them LOL
irishonstars: lol!
murraymint11: me neither Jill!
wernoclue: It is a clever idea. I just wish he'd taken it all the way.
someonegetchristine: they would have been quick reads...lol
BCCJillster: I love his tongue in cheek though
dlee10: I used the library anyway LOL
wernoclue: Oh, yes, there were lots of chuckles along the way.
BCCJillster: Kanga's on lion watch
wernoclue: Any more sightings of the lion>
murraymint11: Ay?
BCCJillster: or squirrel
someonegetchristine: omg, does she know what to look for !!
kathylaz: ok, i'm backing out...college football day....enjoy the rest of the weekend!
BCCJillster: we haven't discussed it Chris
wernoclue: Have fun, Kathy.
someonegetchristine: lol Jill
BCCJillster: Tahnks for coming Kathy
irishonstars: hagd Kathy
someonegetchristine: bye Kathy
murraymint11: cheerio Kathy
BCCJillster: I love that you folks can get here on Sat/Sun
someonegetchristine: you'll need to school her on 'stranger danger'...lol
BCCJillster: I promise the next book is much lighter
someonegetchristine: kanga that is...
*** (20:57):kathylaz.u quit the room
murraymint11: I'm off in a minute to watch the new series of 'Outnumbered'
BCCJillster: big---stay away!
wernoclue: Jill, You've already read 1`3th Tale haven't you?
BCCJillster: yup
someonegetchristine: is it good ??
murraymint11: So have Karen
BCCJillster: it's a twisty tale
dlee10: Oh, I have to go. The hubby is home! See (or type)) to you later!
wernoclue: Me, too. But I'm going to try to skim it again.
BCCJillster: byeee
*** (20:58):dlee10.u quit the room
wernoclue: Bye Deb
BCCJillster: me too karen
irishonstars: take care... and have great days/evenings!
someonegetchristine: bye deb
BCCJillster: come post more Mari
murraymint11: And I'm up for a re-read too. Loved it first time
BCCJillster: Oh you too?
BCCJillster: would you call it gothic?
murraymint11: In a way, yes
wernoclue: I guess I should get going, too. Lots to do today since we leave on Tuesday.
someonegetchristine: so how many of us haven't read it I wonder ??
irishonstars: I DO love this group! You are all great
wernoclue: Chris, have you read it.
irishonstars: I haven't
BCCJillster: Oh karen when will you be back?
someonegetchristine: no Karen
BCCJillster: we love you too Mari
wernoclue: Thanks Mari. We're very glad to have you
irishonstars: but i have it
irishonstars: ty!
murraymint11: mixed in with Wuthering Heights/Jane Eyre/Rebecca
BCCJillster: LOL good points
someonegetchristine: ok..like that
BCCJillster: ooo LOG i have to save the log
wernoclue: I've never read Wuthering Heights. I should do that some day.
