*** (18:57):Welcome to New Chatroom , BCCJillster.u!
*** (18:58):Welcome to New Chatroom , bookmuse.bookchatcentral!
BCCJillster: Hi ya Monica
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : Hi Jill!
BCCJillster: I like this screen name better than MF LOL
BCCJillster: I cracked up when I saw your initials
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : Thanks! What about my initials?
BCCJillster: Hey who the heck is Chloe?
*** (18:59):Welcome to New Chatroom , kathylaz.u!
BCCJillster: YAY Kathy.....
kathylaz: hello, everyone
BCCJillster: actually it might be good that you're here Kath
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : Hi Kathy, Monica here
kathylaz: hi monica. why, jill?
BCCJillster: Monica joined us for Angel's game but I'm hoping sh'ell stay
BCCJillster: because none of us understand the ending
kathylaz: ok ... but
BCCJillster: and maybe you can read it with our questions in mind
BCCJillster: but ..?
kathylaz: dave made plans for us, so i have to leave in about 15-20 minutes anyway!
*** (19:01):Welcome to New Chatroom , someonegetchristine.u!
BCCJillster: Oh rats LOL ok
kathylaz: hi chris
BCCJillster: Morning Chris
someonegetchristine: Hi everyone !!
kathylaz: i know i know...i had no idea!
BCCJillster: Chris, did you meet Monica?
someonegetchristine: No I haven't met Moncia -
someonegetchristine: Hi Monica
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : Hi Chris, Monica here!
kathylaz: monica, where are you located? what part of the country/world?
BCCJillster: Chris is in NZ..isn't that great?
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : California, near SF
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : Cool!
BCCJillster: Another Californian!
someonegetchristine: Nice and warm there !
BCCJillster: Sandra is from SF
kathylaz: well represented from the west
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : You're in CA, Jill?
BCCJillster: Nope, Im in VA
BCCJillster: orig fro NYC
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : oh, ok. I thought you were from back east
kathylaz: the other kathy too is from CA
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : where in ca, kathy?
BCCJillster: you heard my accent?
BCCJillster: I think she's near LA
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : Loud and clear, lol
someonegetchristine: lol
*** (19:03):Welcome to New Chatroom , debbieinca.u!
BCCJillster: Hi Deb, another Calif
kathylaz: south, i think
debbieinca: Hi everyone
someonegetchristine: Hi Debbie
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : looks like another californian
kathylaz: hi deb
kathylaz: another CA person!
BCCJillster: Deb meet Monica, near SF
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : lol
debbieinca: Hi Monica where are you at?
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : Hi Deb!
*** (19:04):Welcome to New Chatroom , beachgal.u!
kathylaz: and another floridian
kathylaz: hi rema
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : SF East Bay
someonegetchristine: Hi Rema
debbieinca: Hi Rema
beachgal: Hello everyone
BCCJillster: Hi Rema, welcome
debbieinca: I am from the central valley where it is hot
BCCJillster: Karen said she won't make it, and Betsy is away, Mary is working
debbieinca: I am going to the Ferry Building Wed.
beachgal: There is a thunderstorm here in MB
BCCJillster: uh oh
kathylaz: i think i can hear it all the way up here!
*** (19:05):Welcome to New Chatroom , dlee10.u!
BCCJillster: ok let's get into the book then...OOOO GOOEIE HI DEB
someonegetchristine: Hi Deb !!
kathylaz: hey deb
BCCJillster: GLAD You made it
dlee10: Hello everyone!
beachgal: Hi DEb
dlee10: Thanks!
BCCJillster: btw, Bookmuse is Monica
debbieinca: hi to another Deb
dlee10: How many debs are here?
BCCJillster: would someone remind me who Chloe is?
debbieinca: me
debbieinca: lol
dlee10: Chloe was the woman David wrote about in his first series
BCCJillster: totally forgot her
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : and had the dream ... or whatever it was he had with her
BCCJillster: before Corelli?
someonegetchristine: yes, thats right,
debbieinca: yes
BCCJillster: ok thanks
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : because of Corellli
dlee10: Corelli gave the "dream" to him
BCCJillster: Oh?
BCCJillster: geee, I
BCCJillster: I'll have to look at that again
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : He sent him the note to go there, right?
kathylaz: wasn't it also who he lost his virginity with?
beachgal: yes
dlee10: Yes. How?
someonegetchristine: yes thats what I thought
BCCJillster: how? LOL
kathylaz: how?
kathylaz: funny
BCCJillster: what did youean Deb?
dlee10: Well, if she wasn't real did he really loose his virginity?
BCCJillster: Oh got ya
dlee10: I guess it is a state of mind
BCCJillster: was anything real? you guys have confused me as much as the book did
BCCJillster: Kathy, should we tell you what's going on in the discussion?
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : It was a dream to the extent that we can tell a difference between a dream and reality in this whole book!
kathylaz: nah, if i get lost, i'll speak up
kathylaz: thanks, though
dlee10: sometimes the dream is better
BCCJillster: ok....so as far as I can tell, either the tumor dun it or Corelli was real
BCCJillster: if it was a real tumor, why didn't david die?
debbieinca: the angle pin confused me
dlee10: If Corelli created the tumor he could cure it too
BCCJillster: agree Dlee
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : Either it was all a dream, or else Corelli was real and supernatural and could make anything happen
BCCJillster: but if Corelli was real (as in the devil), then what David thought happened, did
dlee10: If Corelli was indeed the devil I would think he could alter David's reality
BCCJillster: that's a good explanation
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : Maybe we can start by trying to understand this whole notion of what's "real" in AG. How can we tell fact from fantasy in a book like this?
BCCJillster: I can't wrap myself around Corelli being imagined
BCCJillster: do you think there's an answer to that Monica?
dlee10: I don't think we are meant to tell the difference between reality and fantasy
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : Not really ... I'm hoping someone can take a shot at it, though? ;-)
BCCJillster: I was willing to go for the ride
dlee10: I think the angel pin was just tossed in there. I didn't make much of G's comment
BCCJillster: Sempere, who we know is real, sent him to the Cemetery...where he saw Lux..
kathylaz: it's not just a pin, but angels show up all over, don't they?
*** (19:13):someonegetchristine.u quit the room
kathylaz: oops
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : I was going nicely for the ride and tried to believe David, until Grandes shot down the entire version of reality David had laid out for us
BCCJillster: she'll come back
dlee10: I don't remember any other angels!
kathylaz: there was one on a doorknob (wasn't it the library?)
BCCJillster: oh right
kathylaz: door knocker
kathylaz: and another was on the side of a building
dlee10: Oh. The Devil was a fallen angel after all
BCCJillster: Was Marlasca and his writing of the other book real?
kathylaz: right
BCCJillster: I laughed when Corelli made the crack about being thrown out of his father's house
kathylaz: me too!
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : LOL.
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : That was a big clue
*** (19:15):Welcome to New Chatroom , someonegetchristine.u!
dlee10: Proof that we were meant to believe he was the devil
BCCJillster: If Marlasca wasn't real, why all those deaths?
kathylaz: welcome back, chris
BCCJillster: wb Chris
someonegetchristine: sorry about that...problems with connection
BCCJillster: are you on dial up?
someonegetchristine: no wireless, signal is weak upstairs so moved down!!
kathylaz: that's what i've been wondering; why all the deaths when David tries to find traces of marlasca
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : The whole Marlasca subplot is shot down by Grandes. I think it wasn't real.
BCCJillster: then what was it?
dlee10: My biggest issue was when David destroyed Marlasca's book. Christina had not been able to burn David's so why was he able to destroy M's?
BCCJillster: those people died didn't they?
someonegetchristine: yes Jill, I believe they did
beachgal: I still think that David got carried away after writing all those fantasies in the beginning and it all was a dream
someonegetchristine: didn't they??
BCCJillster: if it was a drewam, what's the epilogue?
BCCJillster: great typing sorry
BCCJillster: you're in the majority Rema
dlee10: Zafon said this was the second of 4 planned books
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : I think Lux Aeterna freaked him out. That and the tower house.
someonegetchristine: I was wondering if he itnends to develop the characters further on
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : If it was a fantasy, how could people die?
BCCJillster: but the info came piecemeal and the deaths were a result
BCCJillster: God I hope not Chris...I've had enough of these folks LOL
BCCJillster: except the Semperes and Isaac
kathylaz: !funny
beachgal: It was all a novel he was writing
dlee10: I don't think the main characters will be the same
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : Everyone is welcome back in the novel with the exception of the Marlasca gang. Good riddance!
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : next novel, I mean
BCCJillster: they're all dead anyway
debbieinca: lol
someonegetchristine: was David 'directly' responsible for any of the deaths if thy were real
dlee10: I preferred Shadow
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : If they were real, yes Chris
BCCJillster: David would have had to burn down the publishers, and I don't think he did
someonegetchristine: he was always on or around the scene
BCCJillster: unless he really was living in the fantasy
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : Not directly. He didn't kill anyone. But he knew that people were dying and places burning down everywhere he went.
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : How could someone with a conscience not realize that and keep going? That's why I think it must have been a fantasy.
BCCJillster: well either corelli was a resence, or he was in David's imagination, can't be a combo
kathylaz: (quietly sneaking out. see you on the boards)
*** (19:21):kathylaz.u quit the room
BCCJillster: See ya Kathy
someonegetchristine: bye kathy!
BCCJillster: that was presence
BCCJillster: and Fire seemed to be Corelli's weapon of choice
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : Did anyone "real," such as Sempres or Isabella ever have contact with Corelli?
dlee10: When people say the devil made them do it are they talking figuratively or was the devil really there if you see what I mean
BCCJillster: I do
someonegetchristine: something within them forced their hand,
BCCJillster: it's a shame that the last third of the book took somuch away from all that came before
dlee10: I still think Corelli was literally there. I'm just playing devil's advocate
BCCJillster: LOLLL
BCCJillster: I do too Deb
someonegetchristine: we never learn who he really is though, do we
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : Agree, Jill. THe last third is almost like a separate book.
dlee10: I didn't like the little christina part
BCCJillster: I wonder how Zafon is reacting to everyone's displeaure with the last third....would he be gleeful or learn from it?
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : Except that it raises the possibility of things not being real, forcing us to reconsider everything
BCCJillster: I wouldn't mind that if I could just choose which I believed without it being a half and half
beachgal: If it all "really" happened why wasn't Interpol looking for David?
someonegetchristine: depends on what his intention was I guess
dlee10: Zafon is probably thrilled that he got people talking
BCCJillster: What do you mean Rema? Because he murdered people?
beachgal: yes
BCCJillster: if it was real, he didn't, COrelli and Ricardo did
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : I really hope Zafon is listening to the criticism. He's so immensely talented that it would be a shame if he went the way of conventional thrillers and ignored what people say.
dlee10: There was no proof that David did anything. He only had motive
beachgal: Zafron got his wish, people take different things away from the novel
BCCJillster: this is true
BCCJillster: he's so good at writing atmosphere and getting the reader caught up....
BCCJillster: I don't think of them as thrillers though I guess technically they are
someonegetchristine: why did Grandes say to david at the end that he didn't care whether david was telling the truth or not, I didn't get that, why pursue him, if not to find out the truth
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : I don't mind the part about taking away different things and creating ambiguity. WHat I mind is the cheap thrills, chases, bloody serial murders, narrow escapes, etc
dlee10: a woo woo thriller
BCCJillster: I thought it was cause Grandee was getting paid anyway...and was politically IN
someonegetchristine: yes, ok
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : Doesn't anyone think he liked David a little?
dlee10: no.
BCCJillster: thought so at first...but not later
dlee10: he betrayed him
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : He did. But he went to a lot of trouble to verify his story. Unless that part's a lie, but I think it's true.
BCCJillster: I felt for Isobella...she was understandable and then...poof she dies
dlee10: let him escape so the others could beat him out of police custody
dlee10: She had to die in order to make Shadow of the Wind real
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : what difference does it make where they beat him up to death?
BCCJillster: less accountable if it's out of the station
dlee10: It wouldn't look good for the police if it happened to a prisoner but it would be fine for an escapee
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : It didn't seem like accountability was a big issue with those people.
BCCJillster: why did Cristina have to die when she did? Was she avoiding Corelli?
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : The best part was the coninuity with Shadow, even if Zafon had to kill Isabella
BCCJillster: and if David imagined it...why did C die at all?
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : I'm totally confused about Christina's death.
BCCJillster: Monica, would you mind making your font a little bigger?
dlee10: Or avoiding David. She was horrifyed about the book he wrote for Corelli. He proved he was a coward by not destroying it
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : lemme see
BCCJillster: (It's under the AA)
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : Better?
BCCJillster: much tanks
BCCJillster: coward or coldn't kill his own child?
someonegetchristine: her role thoughout the book was unconvincing, Isabella had more purpose
BCCJillster: but C was his muse, no?
BCCJillster: his obsession
dlee10: Christina loved David and he proved just as unworthy as Vidal
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : I agree about Isabella. I liked her much better than Christina.
BCCJillster: ditto...C was too weak
someonegetchristine: although she irritated David with her housekeeping !
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : She didn't seem believable from the beginning. True love doesn't work that way. C's way.
debbieinca: do you think that is why she married Vidal because she was weak
BCCJillster: nothing true about her love....yes Deb...she felt she owed him
someonegetchristine: weak and felt sorry for him too
dlee10: I didn't mean true love. But I do think C and
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : I have no idea why she married him. To create a plot, I guess.
dlee10: David loved each other in their own twisted ways
BCCJillster: he was responsible for takinhg care of her father and her
BCCJillster: David seemed to accept C was unattainable for the most part
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : I think David loved her completely and unconditionally. Christina kept pulling away, but then in those letters she seemed totally in love. Makes no sense.
dlee10: I know people in "real life" who married out of a feeling of obligation
BCCJillster: yup Deb
dlee10: so that was very believable for me
beachgal: She probably realized she had made a mistake in marrying him
BCCJillster: she may have known it going in too
BCCJillster: but did it anyway
dlee10: I wonder if David would have love C so much if she had been obtainable. Isabella was there for the taking and he had no interest in her. I don't think that was because of her age either
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : But even before she married him ... why did she keep David at arm's length all the time?
someonegetchristine: I think she did realise her mistake, that led to her breakdown, or whatever it was.
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : Good point, Deb
BCCJillster: He had no chemistry with Isobella
someonegetchristine: he was so off-hand and rude toward Isabella in the beginning
BCCJillster: ewll he did sort of get saddled with her
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : So what caused Christina's breakdown (assuming it was real)? The book? Her mistake?
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : Corelli?
BCCJillster: does anyone remember when the angel's pin was on the floor near the Ms?
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : yup
BCCJillster: I wanted to reread that part, but couldn't find it
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : i'll look for it
dlee10: Perhaps Corelli arrived while C was reading the book. And she went mad because it was so awful not just as a book but because David was capable of writing it.
BCCJillster: that seems a bit fickle, but didn't she say Corelli was trying to enter her mind
someonegetchristine: I didn't understand the C's connection to AC
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : Maybe Corelli did something to her then to get her soul, so she could pull the final trick on David
BCCJillster: Or why he was there when she was little...or did he distort time and plant the pic later?
BCCJillster: in the pic of the man with the white suit I mean
dlee10: Are you sure that man was Corelli?
BCCJillster: OHHHH who was the guy in black with the black eyes that David kept seeing???
BCCJillster: (no Deb, I'm not sure of anything)
dlee10: lol
BCCJillster: David saw him in the mirror mostly, and in the Cemetery
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : which guy? at the Cemetary of Forgotten Books?
BCCJillster: yup, he saw him another time too
dlee10: The bottom line for me was the book got so weird I stopped caring and then stopped paying very much attention to details
someonegetchristine: I don't know, never figured out who that was
BCCJillster: I usually don't mind weird, as we all know, but this was a step too far
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : what about the little boy who kept showing up and guiding David?
BCCJillster: he'll be in the next book
dlee10: I felt like Zafon was messing with my mind just cause he could. No real purpose
BCCJillster: think he's mean?
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : Did Zafon say that or is it a guess? Makes sense ...
BCCJillster: No I made it up
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : good guess ..
someonegetchristine: I've a question about Ricarda - at one point david recognises him in a photo as Diego marlasca?
BCCJillster: there's always someone lurking in the background in Zafon's books
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : Not much in Shadow.
BCCJillster: Oh yes, the author was following him
BCCJillster: Chris, I'm confused about who was who for real there
BCCJillster: Ricardo took over for Marlasca?
someonegetchristine: ok, yeah confusing sorting out who was who
BCCJillster: Julian...that was his name, was following Daniel in Shadow
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : If anyone is not confused by all the characters in that plot, you must have an IQ of 200
dlee10: So it was the cop's body that was identified as Malasca's. Then Marlasca lived as the retired cop
BCCJillster: I think its that there is no sorting it out
BCCJillster: Is that what it was Deb? I was too confused by then
BCCJillster: what was with the smell in the tower room? was that supposed to be Marlasca?
dlee10: That was what I thought although one would think the widow would have known something
BCCJillster: I read this book too erly and can't remember now
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : Did anyone understand about the dolls? The half face? The gravestone with his name?
dlee10: brb
BCCJillster: dolls or the dummies?
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : both ...
BCCJillster: where were the dolls? I forget
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : When David discovered the doll with half his face ... it's described as a doll
BCCJillster: oh
BCCJillster: I dunno...I thought an explanation was coming and it wasn't
BCCJillster: Did Corelli animate them?
BCCJillster: otherwise what purpose would they serve?
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : retroactively?
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : search me!
debbieinca: there was Irene Sabino also
BCCJillster: no....when he wasn't using them...they were dummies waiting for his to use
someonegetchristine: and jaco and roures, theirs was an interesting world...lol
BCCJillster: after all, he had no form
BCCJillster: More confusion Chris LOL
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : Do you guys think all this actually made sense entirely to Zafon?
BCCJillster: What's the consensus on the book then? Did you enjoy it up to the last third?
someonegetchristine: Jill, the youtube video, does it throw much light on the book?
debbieinca: yes untill the last third
BCCJillster: It throws more light on Zafon, I think and that he isn't mean
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : Jill ... the part with the angel pin ... p. 444
BCCJillster: OOO TY
beachgal: I liked it until the last third also
BCCJillster: Oh wait...I have the arc...what chapter?
someonegetchristine: I enjoyed the first part, when david was at the VOI - the third aprt was too hasty and too many things unexplained throughout
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : Chapter 11
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : last page
dlee10: can we rate this one in sections?
BCCJillster: ok thANKS
BCCJillster: LOL good idea Deb...sure
debbieinca: lol
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : I think we have a consensus on the last third
dlee10: Not that I am capable of writing a book but... It seems that a lot of authors have trouble knowing when to stop
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : The only good thing about it is the surprise element, forcing us to think. But I think we'll all be very happy to never hear of Marlasca or Grandes again.
BCCJillster: do you think he wasn't in command of the book or that he was too clever by half?
dlee10: too clever
someonegetchristine: that's my view Jill
someonegetchristine: the plot got away on him somehow
dlee10: you are so much kinder than I am!
BCCJillster: like too much flavoring in the cooking
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : I agree with Deb. He didn't know when to stop.
BCCJillster: I kept hoping he had a plan, that there is SOME answer
BCCJillster: that's why I liked Life of Pi so much, I could just make a choice
dlee10: Life of Pi drove me nuts!
beachgal: Maybe it will have to wait until next novel
BCCJillster: oh dear
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : And then the young Christina stuff at the end ... it seemed so disconnected
BCCJillster: why Deb?
dlee10: I hate having my head messed with unless its woo woo
BCCJillster: the end didn't feel disconnected, it was just desserts in his mind, but if Corelli wasn't real, that messes up my head
someonegetchristine: and difficult to know what parts are woo woo and what parts are not
BCCJillster: Deb, would you have preferred the 'straight story' in Pi then?
dlee10: I am sure the straight story was the real one in Pi.
BCCJillster: I just want Grandee out
dlee10: Don't prefer it but it was still the real one
BCCJillster: LOL Deb, and I preferred the other story...that's why it's fun
dlee10: I have to run. My company has begun to arrive!
BCCJillster: Grandes?...he wrecked it
BCCJillster: BYE
*** (19:58):dlee10.u quit the room
BCCJillster: Well, I'm glad we had such a good time figuring out we can't figure this one out
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : lol
someonegetchristine: lol, I thought you clever people would have all the answers for me !!
beachgal: as an aside I stayed at the Hotel Diagonal in Barcelona a couple of yrs ago
BCCJillster: LOLLLLL keep wishing
BCCJillster: is that one of Gaudi's?
BCCJillster: can you imagine Gaudi's brain????
beachgal: No, a very new hotel
BCCJillster: ohhhh
debbieinca: when I got to the third section I kept saying what, what is hapening
BCCJillster: I think we all did Debbie
someonegetchristine: likewise Deb, I had to stop and re-read sections
beachgal: It was all so confusing at end
debbieinca: yes
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : The Irene thread really threw me off
BCCJillster: I was racing through the last part
BCCJillster: kept thinking more info would come
beachgal:
giving David child Christina was mean
BCCJillster: it sure was
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : well, what do you expect of the devil?
BCCJillster: LOLLLLLL
BCCJillster: very Pacino like
debbieinca: yes
debbieinca: perfect
beachgal: Of course he could have given her to someone else to raise
BCCJillster: Oooo guess what, Kevin Spacey has a new movie out...Trick I think it's called
BCCJillster: then no reason to bring her back..unless to tempt David as an adult again
someonegetchristine.u says to (20:02) *** (18:57):Welcome to New Chatroom , BCCJillster.u!
*** (18:58):Welcome to New Chatroom , bookmuse.bookchatcentral!
BCCJillster: Hi ya Monica
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : Hi Jill!
BCCJillster: I like this screen name better than MF LOL
BCCJillster: I cracked up when I saw your initials
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : Thanks! What about my initials?
BCCJillster: Hey who the heck is Chloe?
*** (18:59):Welcome to New Chatroom , kathylaz.u!
BCCJillster: YAY Kathy.....
kathylaz: hello, everyone
BCCJillster: actually it might be good that you're here Kath
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : Hi Kathy, Monica here
kathylaz: hi monica. why, jill?
BCCJillster: Monica joined us for Angel's game but I'm hoping sh'ell stay
BCCJillster: because none of us understand the ending
kathylaz: ok ... but
BCCJillster: and maybe you can read it with our questions in mind
BCCJillster: but ..?
kathylaz: dave made plans for us, so i have to leave in about 15-20 minutes anyway!
*** (19:01):Welcome to New Chatroom , someonegetchristine.u!
BCCJillster: Oh rats LOL ok
kathylaz: hi chris
BCCJillster: Morning Chris
someonegetchristine: Hi everyone !!
kathylaz: i know i know...i had no idea!
BCCJillster: Chris, did you meet Monica?
someonegetchristine: No I haven't met Moncia -
someonegetchristine: Hi Monica
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : Hi Chris, Monica here!
kathylaz: monica, where are you located? what part of the country/world?
BCCJillster: Chris is in NZ..isn't that great?
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : California, near SF
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : Cool!
BCCJillster: Another Californian!
someonegetchristine: Nice and warm there !
BCCJillster: Sandra is from SF
kathylaz: well represented from the west
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : You're in CA, Jill?
BCCJillster: Nope, Im in VA
BCCJillster: orig fro NYC
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : oh, ok. I thought you were from back east
kathylaz: the other kathy too is from CA
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : where in ca, kathy?
BCCJillster: you heard my accent?
BCCJillster: I think she's near LA
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : Loud and clear, lol
someonegetchristine: lol
*** (19:03):Welcome to New Chatroom , debbieinca.u!
BCCJillster: Hi Deb, another Calif
kathylaz: south, i think
debbieinca: Hi everyone
someonegetchristine: Hi Debbie
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : looks like another californian
kathylaz: hi deb
kathylaz: another CA person!
BCCJillster: Deb meet Monica, near SF
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : lol
debbieinca: Hi Monica where are you at?
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : Hi Deb!
*** (19:04):Welcome to New Chatroom , beachgal.u!
kathylaz: and another floridian
kathylaz: hi rema
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : SF East Bay
someonegetchristine: Hi Rema
debbieinca: Hi Rema
beachgal: Hello everyone
BCCJillster: Hi Rema, welcome
debbieinca: I am from the central valley where it is hot
BCCJillster: Karen said she won't make it, and Betsy is away, Mary is working
debbieinca: I am going to the Ferry Building Wed.
beachgal: There is a thunderstorm here in MB
BCCJillster: uh oh
kathylaz: i think i can hear it all the way up here!
*** (19:05):Welcome to New Chatroom , dlee10.u!
BCCJillster: ok let's get into the book then...OOOO GOOEIE HI DEB
someonegetchristine: Hi Deb !!
kathylaz: hey deb
BCCJillster: GLAD You made it
dlee10: Hello everyone!
beachgal: Hi DEb
dlee10: Thanks!
BCCJillster: btw, Bookmuse is Monica
debbieinca: hi to another Deb
dlee10: How many debs are here?
BCCJillster: would someone remind me who Chloe is?
debbieinca: me
debbieinca: lol
dlee10: Chloe was the woman David wrote about in his first series
BCCJillster: totally forgot her
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : and had the dream ... or whatever it was he had with her
BCCJillster: before Corelli?
someonegetchristine: yes, thats right,
debbieinca: yes
BCCJillster: ok thanks
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : because of Corellli
dlee10: Corelli gave the "dream" to him
BCCJillster: Oh?
BCCJillster: geee, I
BCCJillster: I'll have to look at that again
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : He sent him the note to go there, right?
kathylaz: wasn't it also who he lost his virginity with?
beachgal: yes
dlee10: Yes. How?
someonegetchristine: yes thats what I thought
BCCJillster: how? LOL
kathylaz: how?
kathylaz: funny
BCCJillster: what did youean Deb?
dlee10: Well, if she wasn't real did he really loose his virginity?
BCCJillster: Oh got ya
dlee10: I guess it is a state of mind
BCCJillster: was anything real? you guys have confused me as much as the book did
BCCJillster: Kathy, should we tell you what's going on in the discussion?
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : It was a dream to the extent that we can tell a difference between a dream and reality in this whole book!
kathylaz: nah, if i get lost, i'll speak up
kathylaz: thanks, though
dlee10: sometimes the dream is better
BCCJillster: ok....so as far as I can tell, either the tumor dun it or Corelli was real
BCCJillster: if it was a real tumor, why didn't david die?
debbieinca: the angle pin confused me
dlee10: If Corelli created the tumor he could cure it too
BCCJillster: agree Dlee
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : Either it was all a dream, or else Corelli was real and supernatural and could make anything happen
BCCJillster: but if Corelli was real (as in the devil), then what David thought happened, did
dlee10: If Corelli was indeed the devil I would think he could alter David's reality
BCCJillster: that's a good explanation
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : Maybe we can start by trying to understand this whole notion of what's "real" in AG. How can we tell fact from fantasy in a book like this?
BCCJillster: I can't wrap myself around Corelli being imagined
BCCJillster: do you think there's an answer to that Monica?
dlee10: I don't think we are meant to tell the difference between reality and fantasy
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : Not really ... I'm hoping someone can take a shot at it, though? ;-)
BCCJillster: I was willing to go for the ride
dlee10: I think the angel pin was just tossed in there. I didn't make much of G's comment
BCCJillster: Sempere, who we know is real, sent him to the Cemetery...where he saw Lux..
kathylaz: it's not just a pin, but angels show up all over, don't they?
*** (19:13):someonegetchristine.u quit the room
kathylaz: oops
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : I was going nicely for the ride and tried to believe David, until Grandes shot down the entire version of reality David had laid out for us
BCCJillster: she'll come back
dlee10: I don't remember any other angels!
kathylaz: there was one on a doorknob (wasn't it the library?)
BCCJillster: oh right
kathylaz: door knocker
kathylaz: and another was on the side of a building
dlee10: Oh. The Devil was a fallen angel after all
BCCJillster: Was Marlasca and his writing of the other book real?
kathylaz: right
BCCJillster: I laughed when Corelli made the crack about being thrown out of his father's house
kathylaz: me too!
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : LOL.
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : That was a big clue
*** (19:15):Welcome to New Chatroom , someonegetchristine.u!
dlee10: Proof that we were meant to believe he was the devil
BCCJillster: If Marlasca wasn't real, why all those deaths?
kathylaz: welcome back, chris
BCCJillster: wb Chris
someonegetchristine: sorry about that...problems with connection
BCCJillster: are you on dial up?
someonegetchristine: no wireless, signal is weak upstairs so moved down!!
kathylaz: that's what i've been wondering; why all the deaths when David tries to find traces of marlasca
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : The whole Marlasca subplot is shot down by Grandes. I think it wasn't real.
BCCJillster: then what was it?
dlee10: My biggest issue was when David destroyed Marlasca's book. Christina had not been able to burn David's so why was he able to destroy M's?
BCCJillster: those people died didn't they?
someonegetchristine: yes Jill, I believe they did
beachgal: I still think that David got carried away after writing all those fantasies in the beginning and it all was a dream
someonegetchristine: didn't they??
BCCJillster: if it was a drewam, what's the epilogue?
BCCJillster: great typing sorry
BCCJillster: you're in the majority Rema
dlee10: Zafon said this was the second of 4 planned books
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : I think Lux Aeterna freaked him out. That and the tower house.
someonegetchristine: I was wondering if he itnends to develop the characters further on
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : If it was a fantasy, how could people die?
BCCJillster: but the info came piecemeal and the deaths were a result
BCCJillster: God I hope not Chris...I've had enough of these folks LOL
BCCJillster: except the Semperes and Isaac
kathylaz: !funny
beachgal: It was all a novel he was writing
dlee10: I don't think the main characters will be the same
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : Everyone is welcome back in the novel with the exception of the Marlasca gang. Good riddance!
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : next novel, I mean
BCCJillster: they're all dead anyway
debbieinca: lol
someonegetchristine: was David 'directly' responsible for any of the deaths if thy were real
dlee10: I preferred Shadow
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : If they were real, yes Chris
BCCJillster: David would have had to burn down the publishers, and I don't think he did
someonegetchristine: he was always on or around the scene
BCCJillster: unless he really was living in the fantasy
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : Not directly. He didn't kill anyone. But he knew that people were dying and places burning down everywhere he went.
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : How could someone with a conscience not realize that and keep going? That's why I think it must have been a fantasy.
BCCJillster: well either corelli was a resence, or he was in David's imagination, can't be a combo
kathylaz: (quietly sneaking out. see you on the boards)
*** (19:21):kathylaz.u quit the room
BCCJillster: See ya Kathy
someonegetchristine: bye kathy!
BCCJillster: that was presence
BCCJillster: and Fire seemed to be Corelli's weapon of choice
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : Did anyone "real," such as Sempres or Isabella ever have contact with Corelli?
dlee10: When people say the devil made them do it are they talking figuratively or was the devil really there if you see what I mean
BCCJillster: I do
someonegetchristine: something within them forced their hand,
BCCJillster: it's a shame that the last third of the book took somuch away from all that came before
dlee10: I still think Corelli was literally there. I'm just playing devil's advocate
BCCJillster: LOLLL
BCCJillster: I do too Deb
someonegetchristine: we never learn who he really is though, do we
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : Agree, Jill. THe last third is almost like a separate book.
dlee10: I didn't like the little christina part
BCCJillster: I wonder how Zafon is reacting to everyone's displeaure with the last third....would he be gleeful or learn from it?
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : Except that it raises the possibility of things not being real, forcing us to reconsider everything
BCCJillster: I wouldn't mind that if I could just choose which I believed without it being a half and half
beachgal: If it all "really" happened why wasn't Interpol looking for David?
someonegetchristine: depends on what his intention was I guess
dlee10: Zafon is probably thrilled that he got people talking
BCCJillster: What do you mean Rema? Because he murdered people?
beachgal: yes
BCCJillster: if it was real, he didn't, COrelli and Ricardo did
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : I really hope Zafon is listening to the criticism. He's so immensely talented that it would be a shame if he went the way of conventional thrillers and ignored what people say.
dlee10: There was no proof that David did anything. He only had motive
beachgal: Zafron got his wish, people take different things away from the novel
BCCJillster: this is true
BCCJillster: he's so good at writing atmosphere and getting the reader caught up....
BCCJillster: I don't think of them as thrillers though I guess technically they are
someonegetchristine: why did Grandes say to david at the end that he didn't care whether david was telling the truth or not, I didn't get that, why pursue him, if not to find out the truth
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : I don't mind the part about taking away different things and creating ambiguity. WHat I mind is the cheap thrills, chases, bloody serial murders, narrow escapes, etc
dlee10: a woo woo thriller
BCCJillster: I thought it was cause Grandee was getting paid anyway...and was politically IN
someonegetchristine: yes, ok
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : Doesn't anyone think he liked David a little?
dlee10: no.
BCCJillster: thought so at first...but not later
dlee10: he betrayed him
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : He did. But he went to a lot of trouble to verify his story. Unless that part's a lie, but I think it's true.
BCCJillster: I felt for Isobella...she was understandable and then...poof she dies
dlee10: let him escape so the others could beat him out of police custody
dlee10: She had to die in order to make Shadow of the Wind real
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : what difference does it make where they beat him up to death?
BCCJillster: less accountable if it's out of the station
dlee10: It wouldn't look good for the police if it happened to a prisoner but it would be fine for an escapee
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : It didn't seem like accountability was a big issue with those people.
BCCJillster: why did Cristina have to die when she did? Was she avoiding Corelli?
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : The best part was the coninuity with Shadow, even if Zafon had to kill Isabella
BCCJillster: and if David imagined it...why did C die at all?
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : I'm totally confused about Christina's death.
BCCJillster: Monica, would you mind making your font a little bigger?
dlee10: Or avoiding David. She was horrifyed about the book he wrote for Corelli. He proved he was a coward by not destroying it
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : lemme see
BCCJillster: (It's under the AA)
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : Better?
BCCJillster: much tanks
BCCJillster: coward or coldn't kill his own child?
someonegetchristine: her role thoughout the book was unconvincing, Isabella had more purpose
BCCJillster: but C was his muse, no?
BCCJillster: his obsession
dlee10: Christina loved David and he proved just as unworthy as Vidal
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : I agree about Isabella. I liked her much better than Christina.
BCCJillster: ditto...C was too weak
someonegetchristine: although she irritated David with her housekeeping !
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : She didn't seem believable from the beginning. True love doesn't work that way. C's way.
debbieinca: do you think that is why she married Vidal because she was weak
BCCJillster: nothing true about her love....yes Deb...she felt she owed him
someonegetchristine: weak and felt sorry for him too
dlee10: I didn't mean true love. But I do think C and
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : I have no idea why she married him. To create a plot, I guess.
dlee10: David loved each other in their own twisted ways
BCCJillster: he was responsible for takinhg care of her father and her
BCCJillster: David seemed to accept C was unattainable for the most part
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : I think David loved her completely and unconditionally. Christina kept pulling away, but then in those letters she seemed totally in love. Makes no sense.
dlee10: I know people in "real life" who married out of a feeling of obligation
BCCJillster: yup Deb
dlee10: so that was very believable for me
beachgal: She probably realized she had made a mistake in marrying him
BCCJillster: she may have known it going in too
BCCJillster: but did it anyway
dlee10: I wonder if David would have love C so much if she had been obtainable. Isabella was there for the taking and he had no interest in her. I don't think that was because of her age either
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : But even before she married him ... why did she keep David at arm's length all the time?
someonegetchristine: I think she did realise her mistake, that led to her breakdown, or whatever it was.
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : Good point, Deb
BCCJillster: He had no chemistry with Isobella
someonegetchristine: he was so off-hand and rude toward Isabella in the beginning
BCCJillster: ewll he did sort of get saddled with her
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : So what caused Christina's breakdown (assuming it was real)? The book? Her mistake?
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : Corelli?
BCCJillster: does anyone remember when the angel's pin was on the floor near the Ms?
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : yup
BCCJillster: I wanted to reread that part, but couldn't find it
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : i'll look for it
dlee10: Perhaps Corelli arrived while C was reading the book. And she went mad because it was so awful not just as a book but because David was capable of writing it.
BCCJillster: that seems a bit fickle, but didn't she say Corelli was trying to enter her mind
someonegetchristine: I didn't understand the C's connection to AC
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : Maybe Corelli did something to her then to get her soul, so she could pull the final trick on David
BCCJillster: Or why he was there when she was little...or did he distort time and plant the pic later?
BCCJillster: in the pic of the man with the white suit I mean
dlee10: Are you sure that man was Corelli?
BCCJillster: OHHHH who was the guy in black with the black eyes that David kept seeing???
BCCJillster: (no Deb, I'm not sure of anything)
dlee10: lol
BCCJillster: David saw him in the mirror mostly, and in the Cemetery
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : which guy? at the Cemetary of Forgotten Books?
BCCJillster: yup, he saw him another time too
dlee10: The bottom line for me was the book got so weird I stopped caring and then stopped paying very much attention to details
someonegetchristine: I don't know, never figured out who that was
BCCJillster: I usually don't mind weird, as we all know, but this was a step too far
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : what about the little boy who kept showing up and guiding David?
BCCJillster: he'll be in the next book
dlee10: I felt like Zafon was messing with my mind just cause he could. No real purpose
BCCJillster: think he's mean?
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : Did Zafon say that or is it a guess? Makes sense ...
BCCJillster: No I made it up
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : good guess ..
someonegetchristine: I've a question about Ricarda - at one point david recognises him in a photo as Diego marlasca?
BCCJillster: there's always someone lurking in the background in Zafon's books
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : Not much in Shadow.
BCCJillster: Oh yes, the author was following him
BCCJillster: Chris, I'm confused about who was who for real there
BCCJillster: Ricardo took over for Marlasca?
someonegetchristine: ok, yeah confusing sorting out who was who
BCCJillster: Julian...that was his name, was following Daniel in Shadow
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : If anyone is not confused by all the characters in that plot, you must have an IQ of 200
dlee10: So it was the cop's body that was identified as Malasca's. Then Marlasca lived as the retired cop
BCCJillster: I think its that there is no sorting it out
BCCJillster: Is that what it was Deb? I was too confused by then
BCCJillster: what was with the smell in the tower room? was that supposed to be Marlasca?
dlee10: That was what I thought although one would think the widow would have known something
BCCJillster: I read this book too erly and can't remember now
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : Did anyone understand about the dolls? The half face? The gravestone with his name?
dlee10: brb
BCCJillster: dolls or the dummies?
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : both ...
BCCJillster: where were the dolls? I forget
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : When David discovered the doll with half his face ... it's described as a doll
BCCJillster: oh
BCCJillster: I dunno...I thought an explanation was coming and it wasn't
BCCJillster: Did Corelli animate them?
BCCJillster: otherwise what purpose would they serve?
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : retroactively?
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : search me!
debbieinca: there was Irene Sabino also
BCCJillster: no....when he wasn't using them...they were dummies waiting for his to use
someonegetchristine: and jaco and roures, theirs was an interesting world...lol
BCCJillster: after all, he had no form
BCCJillster: More confusion Chris LOL
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : Do you guys think all this actually made sense entirely to Zafon?
BCCJillster: What's the consensus on the book then? Did you enjoy it up to the last third?
someonegetchristine: Jill, the youtube video, does it throw much light on the book?
debbieinca: yes untill the last third
BCCJillster: It throws more light on Zafon, I think and that he isn't mean
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : Jill ... the part with the angel pin ... p. 444
BCCJillster: OOO TY
beachgal: I liked it until the last third also
BCCJillster: Oh wait...I have the arc...what chapter?
someonegetchristine: I enjoyed the first part, when david was at the VOI - the third aprt was too hasty and too many things unexplained throughout
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : Chapter 11
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : last page
dlee10: can we rate this one in sections?
BCCJillster: ok thANKS
BCCJillster: LOL good idea Deb...sure
debbieinca: lol
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : I think we have a consensus on the last third
dlee10: Not that I am capable of writing a book but... It seems that a lot of authors have trouble knowing when to stop
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : The only good thing about it is the surprise element, forcing us to think. But I think we'll all be very happy to never hear of Marlasca or Grandes again.
BCCJillster: do you think he wasn't in command of the book or that he was too clever by half?
dlee10: too clever
someonegetchristine: that's my view Jill
someonegetchristine: the plot got away on him somehow
dlee10: you are so much kinder than I am!
BCCJillster: like too much flavoring in the cooking
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : I agree with Deb. He didn't know when to stop.
BCCJillster: I kept hoping he had a plan, that there is SOME answer
BCCJillster: that's why I liked Life of Pi so much, I could just make a choice
dlee10: Life of Pi drove me nuts!
beachgal: Maybe it will have to wait until next novel
BCCJillster: oh dear
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : And then the young Christina stuff at the end ... it seemed so disconnected
BCCJillster: why Deb?
dlee10: I hate having my head messed with unless its woo woo
BCCJillster: the end didn't feel disconnected, it was just desserts in his mind, but if Corelli wasn't real, that messes up my head
someonegetchristine: and difficult to know what parts are woo woo and what parts are not
BCCJillster: Deb, would you have preferred the 'straight story' in Pi then?
dlee10: I am sure the straight story was the real one in Pi.
BCCJillster: I just want Grandee out
dlee10: Don't prefer it but it was still the real one
BCCJillster: LOL Deb, and I preferred the other story...that's why it's fun
dlee10: I have to run. My company has begun to arrive!
BCCJillster: Grandes?...he wrecked it
BCCJillster: BYE
*** (19:58):dlee10.u quit the room
BCCJillster: Well, I'm glad we had such a good time figuring out we can't figure this one out
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : lol
someonegetchristine: lol, I thought you clever people would have all the answers for me !!
beachgal: as an aside I stayed at the Hotel Diagonal in Barcelona a couple of yrs ago
BCCJillster: LOLLLLL keep wishing
BCCJillster: is that one of Gaudi's?
BCCJillster: can you imagine Gaudi's brain????
beachgal: No, a very new hotel
BCCJillster: ohhhh
debbieinca: when I got to the third section I kept saying what, what is hapening
BCCJillster: I think we all did Debbie
someonegetchristine: likewise Deb, I had to stop and re-read sections
beachgal: It was all so confusing at end
debbieinca: yes
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : The Irene thread really threw me off
BCCJillster: I was racing through the last part
BCCJillster: kept thinking more info would come
beachgal:
giving David child Christina was mean
BCCJillster: it sure was
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : well, what do you expect of the devil?
BCCJillster: LOLLLLLL
BCCJillster: very Pacino like
debbieinca: yes
debbieinca: perfect
beachgal: Of course he could have given her to someone else to raise
BCCJillster: Oooo guess what, Kevin Spacey has a new movie out...Trick I think it's called
BCCJillster: then no reason to bring her back..unless to tempt David as an adult again
someonegetchristine: swings and roundabouts !
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : I think that's what he said, Corelli
someonegetchristine: lol
BCCJillster: Chris are you still up North?
someonegetchristine: Yes
BCCJillster: Mum any batter?
BCCJillster: better
someonegetchristine: for a few more days...just the same, slow progress if any, we're just watching things at th moment, still at home though
BCCJillster: wish you all the best
someonegetchristine: thanks !!
BCCJillster: well I'm going to save this log
debbieinca: I am glad she is at home, hard on you though
BCCJillster: brb
*** (18:58):Welcome to New Chatroom , bookmuse.bookchatcentral!
BCCJillster: Hi ya Monica
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : Hi Jill!
BCCJillster: I like this screen name better than MF LOL
BCCJillster: I cracked up when I saw your initials
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : Thanks! What about my initials?
BCCJillster: Hey who the heck is Chloe?
*** (18:59):Welcome to New Chatroom , kathylaz.u!
BCCJillster: YAY Kathy.....
kathylaz: hello, everyone
BCCJillster: actually it might be good that you're here Kath
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : Hi Kathy, Monica here
kathylaz: hi monica. why, jill?
BCCJillster: Monica joined us for Angel's game but I'm hoping sh'ell stay
BCCJillster: because none of us understand the ending
kathylaz: ok ... but
BCCJillster: and maybe you can read it with our questions in mind
BCCJillster: but ..?
kathylaz: dave made plans for us, so i have to leave in about 15-20 minutes anyway!
*** (19:01):Welcome to New Chatroom , someonegetchristine.u!
BCCJillster: Oh rats LOL ok
kathylaz: hi chris
BCCJillster: Morning Chris
someonegetchristine: Hi everyone !!
kathylaz: i know i know...i had no idea!
BCCJillster: Chris, did you meet Monica?
someonegetchristine: No I haven't met Moncia -
someonegetchristine: Hi Monica
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : Hi Chris, Monica here!
kathylaz: monica, where are you located? what part of the country/world?
BCCJillster: Chris is in NZ..isn't that great?
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : California, near SF
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : Cool!
BCCJillster: Another Californian!
someonegetchristine: Nice and warm there !
BCCJillster: Sandra is from SF
kathylaz: well represented from the west
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : You're in CA, Jill?
BCCJillster: Nope, Im in VA
BCCJillster: orig fro NYC
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : oh, ok. I thought you were from back east
kathylaz: the other kathy too is from CA
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : where in ca, kathy?
BCCJillster: you heard my accent?
BCCJillster: I think she's near LA
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : Loud and clear, lol
someonegetchristine: lol
*** (19:03):Welcome to New Chatroom , debbieinca.u!
BCCJillster: Hi Deb, another Calif
kathylaz: south, i think
debbieinca: Hi everyone
someonegetchristine: Hi Debbie
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : looks like another californian
kathylaz: hi deb
kathylaz: another CA person!
BCCJillster: Deb meet Monica, near SF
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : lol
debbieinca: Hi Monica where are you at?
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : Hi Deb!
*** (19:04):Welcome to New Chatroom , beachgal.u!
kathylaz: and another floridian
kathylaz: hi rema
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : SF East Bay
someonegetchristine: Hi Rema
debbieinca: Hi Rema
beachgal: Hello everyone
BCCJillster: Hi Rema, welcome
debbieinca: I am from the central valley where it is hot
BCCJillster: Karen said she won't make it, and Betsy is away, Mary is working
debbieinca: I am going to the Ferry Building Wed.
beachgal: There is a thunderstorm here in MB
BCCJillster: uh oh
kathylaz: i think i can hear it all the way up here!
*** (19:05):Welcome to New Chatroom , dlee10.u!
BCCJillster: ok let's get into the book then...OOOO GOOEIE HI DEB
someonegetchristine: Hi Deb !!
kathylaz: hey deb
BCCJillster: GLAD You made it
dlee10: Hello everyone!
beachgal: Hi DEb
dlee10: Thanks!
BCCJillster: btw, Bookmuse is Monica
debbieinca: hi to another Deb
dlee10: How many debs are here?
BCCJillster: would someone remind me who Chloe is?
debbieinca: me
debbieinca: lol
dlee10: Chloe was the woman David wrote about in his first series
BCCJillster: totally forgot her
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : and had the dream ... or whatever it was he had with her
BCCJillster: before Corelli?
someonegetchristine: yes, thats right,
debbieinca: yes
BCCJillster: ok thanks
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : because of Corellli
dlee10: Corelli gave the "dream" to him
BCCJillster: Oh?
BCCJillster: geee, I
BCCJillster: I'll have to look at that again
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : He sent him the note to go there, right?
kathylaz: wasn't it also who he lost his virginity with?
beachgal: yes
dlee10: Yes. How?
someonegetchristine: yes thats what I thought
BCCJillster: how? LOL
kathylaz: how?
kathylaz: funny
BCCJillster: what did youean Deb?
dlee10: Well, if she wasn't real did he really loose his virginity?
BCCJillster: Oh got ya
dlee10: I guess it is a state of mind
BCCJillster: was anything real? you guys have confused me as much as the book did
BCCJillster: Kathy, should we tell you what's going on in the discussion?
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : It was a dream to the extent that we can tell a difference between a dream and reality in this whole book!
kathylaz: nah, if i get lost, i'll speak up
kathylaz: thanks, though
dlee10: sometimes the dream is better
BCCJillster: ok....so as far as I can tell, either the tumor dun it or Corelli was real
BCCJillster: if it was a real tumor, why didn't david die?
debbieinca: the angle pin confused me
dlee10: If Corelli created the tumor he could cure it too
BCCJillster: agree Dlee
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : Either it was all a dream, or else Corelli was real and supernatural and could make anything happen
BCCJillster: but if Corelli was real (as in the devil), then what David thought happened, did
dlee10: If Corelli was indeed the devil I would think he could alter David's reality
BCCJillster: that's a good explanation
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : Maybe we can start by trying to understand this whole notion of what's "real" in AG. How can we tell fact from fantasy in a book like this?
BCCJillster: I can't wrap myself around Corelli being imagined
BCCJillster: do you think there's an answer to that Monica?
dlee10: I don't think we are meant to tell the difference between reality and fantasy
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : Not really ... I'm hoping someone can take a shot at it, though? ;-)
BCCJillster: I was willing to go for the ride
dlee10: I think the angel pin was just tossed in there. I didn't make much of G's comment
BCCJillster: Sempere, who we know is real, sent him to the Cemetery...where he saw Lux..
kathylaz: it's not just a pin, but angels show up all over, don't they?
*** (19:13):someonegetchristine.u quit the room
kathylaz: oops
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : I was going nicely for the ride and tried to believe David, until Grandes shot down the entire version of reality David had laid out for us
BCCJillster: she'll come back
dlee10: I don't remember any other angels!
kathylaz: there was one on a doorknob (wasn't it the library?)
BCCJillster: oh right
kathylaz: door knocker
kathylaz: and another was on the side of a building
dlee10: Oh. The Devil was a fallen angel after all
BCCJillster: Was Marlasca and his writing of the other book real?
kathylaz: right
BCCJillster: I laughed when Corelli made the crack about being thrown out of his father's house
kathylaz: me too!
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : LOL.
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : That was a big clue
*** (19:15):Welcome to New Chatroom , someonegetchristine.u!
dlee10: Proof that we were meant to believe he was the devil
BCCJillster: If Marlasca wasn't real, why all those deaths?
kathylaz: welcome back, chris
BCCJillster: wb Chris
someonegetchristine: sorry about that...problems with connection
BCCJillster: are you on dial up?
someonegetchristine: no wireless, signal is weak upstairs so moved down!!
kathylaz: that's what i've been wondering; why all the deaths when David tries to find traces of marlasca
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : The whole Marlasca subplot is shot down by Grandes. I think it wasn't real.
BCCJillster: then what was it?
dlee10: My biggest issue was when David destroyed Marlasca's book. Christina had not been able to burn David's so why was he able to destroy M's?
BCCJillster: those people died didn't they?
someonegetchristine: yes Jill, I believe they did
beachgal: I still think that David got carried away after writing all those fantasies in the beginning and it all was a dream
someonegetchristine: didn't they??
BCCJillster: if it was a drewam, what's the epilogue?
BCCJillster: great typing sorry
BCCJillster: you're in the majority Rema
dlee10: Zafon said this was the second of 4 planned books
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : I think Lux Aeterna freaked him out. That and the tower house.
someonegetchristine: I was wondering if he itnends to develop the characters further on
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : If it was a fantasy, how could people die?
BCCJillster: but the info came piecemeal and the deaths were a result
BCCJillster: God I hope not Chris...I've had enough of these folks LOL
BCCJillster: except the Semperes and Isaac
kathylaz: !funny
beachgal: It was all a novel he was writing
dlee10: I don't think the main characters will be the same
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : Everyone is welcome back in the novel with the exception of the Marlasca gang. Good riddance!
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : next novel, I mean
BCCJillster: they're all dead anyway
debbieinca: lol
someonegetchristine: was David 'directly' responsible for any of the deaths if thy were real
dlee10: I preferred Shadow
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : If they were real, yes Chris
BCCJillster: David would have had to burn down the publishers, and I don't think he did
someonegetchristine: he was always on or around the scene
BCCJillster: unless he really was living in the fantasy
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : Not directly. He didn't kill anyone. But he knew that people were dying and places burning down everywhere he went.
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : How could someone with a conscience not realize that and keep going? That's why I think it must have been a fantasy.
BCCJillster: well either corelli was a resence, or he was in David's imagination, can't be a combo
kathylaz: (quietly sneaking out. see you on the boards)
*** (19:21):kathylaz.u quit the room
BCCJillster: See ya Kathy
someonegetchristine: bye kathy!
BCCJillster: that was presence
BCCJillster: and Fire seemed to be Corelli's weapon of choice
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : Did anyone "real," such as Sempres or Isabella ever have contact with Corelli?
dlee10: When people say the devil made them do it are they talking figuratively or was the devil really there if you see what I mean
BCCJillster: I do
someonegetchristine: something within them forced their hand,
BCCJillster: it's a shame that the last third of the book took somuch away from all that came before
dlee10: I still think Corelli was literally there. I'm just playing devil's advocate
BCCJillster: LOLLL
BCCJillster: I do too Deb
someonegetchristine: we never learn who he really is though, do we
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : Agree, Jill. THe last third is almost like a separate book.
dlee10: I didn't like the little christina part
BCCJillster: I wonder how Zafon is reacting to everyone's displeaure with the last third....would he be gleeful or learn from it?
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : Except that it raises the possibility of things not being real, forcing us to reconsider everything
BCCJillster: I wouldn't mind that if I could just choose which I believed without it being a half and half
beachgal: If it all "really" happened why wasn't Interpol looking for David?
someonegetchristine: depends on what his intention was I guess
dlee10: Zafon is probably thrilled that he got people talking
BCCJillster: What do you mean Rema? Because he murdered people?
beachgal: yes
BCCJillster: if it was real, he didn't, COrelli and Ricardo did
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : I really hope Zafon is listening to the criticism. He's so immensely talented that it would be a shame if he went the way of conventional thrillers and ignored what people say.
dlee10: There was no proof that David did anything. He only had motive
beachgal: Zafron got his wish, people take different things away from the novel
BCCJillster: this is true
BCCJillster: he's so good at writing atmosphere and getting the reader caught up....
BCCJillster: I don't think of them as thrillers though I guess technically they are
someonegetchristine: why did Grandes say to david at the end that he didn't care whether david was telling the truth or not, I didn't get that, why pursue him, if not to find out the truth
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : I don't mind the part about taking away different things and creating ambiguity. WHat I mind is the cheap thrills, chases, bloody serial murders, narrow escapes, etc
dlee10: a woo woo thriller
BCCJillster: I thought it was cause Grandee was getting paid anyway...and was politically IN
someonegetchristine: yes, ok
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : Doesn't anyone think he liked David a little?
dlee10: no.
BCCJillster: thought so at first...but not later
dlee10: he betrayed him
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : He did. But he went to a lot of trouble to verify his story. Unless that part's a lie, but I think it's true.
BCCJillster: I felt for Isobella...she was understandable and then...poof she dies
dlee10: let him escape so the others could beat him out of police custody
dlee10: She had to die in order to make Shadow of the Wind real
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : what difference does it make where they beat him up to death?
BCCJillster: less accountable if it's out of the station
dlee10: It wouldn't look good for the police if it happened to a prisoner but it would be fine for an escapee
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : It didn't seem like accountability was a big issue with those people.
BCCJillster: why did Cristina have to die when she did? Was she avoiding Corelli?
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : The best part was the coninuity with Shadow, even if Zafon had to kill Isabella
BCCJillster: and if David imagined it...why did C die at all?
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : I'm totally confused about Christina's death.
BCCJillster: Monica, would you mind making your font a little bigger?
dlee10: Or avoiding David. She was horrifyed about the book he wrote for Corelli. He proved he was a coward by not destroying it
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : lemme see
BCCJillster: (It's under the AA)
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : Better?
BCCJillster: much tanks
BCCJillster: coward or coldn't kill his own child?
someonegetchristine: her role thoughout the book was unconvincing, Isabella had more purpose
BCCJillster: but C was his muse, no?
BCCJillster: his obsession
dlee10: Christina loved David and he proved just as unworthy as Vidal
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : I agree about Isabella. I liked her much better than Christina.
BCCJillster: ditto...C was too weak
someonegetchristine: although she irritated David with her housekeeping !
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : She didn't seem believable from the beginning. True love doesn't work that way. C's way.
debbieinca: do you think that is why she married Vidal because she was weak
BCCJillster: nothing true about her love....yes Deb...she felt she owed him
someonegetchristine: weak and felt sorry for him too
dlee10: I didn't mean true love. But I do think C and
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : I have no idea why she married him. To create a plot, I guess.
dlee10: David loved each other in their own twisted ways
BCCJillster: he was responsible for takinhg care of her father and her
BCCJillster: David seemed to accept C was unattainable for the most part
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : I think David loved her completely and unconditionally. Christina kept pulling away, but then in those letters she seemed totally in love. Makes no sense.
dlee10: I know people in "real life" who married out of a feeling of obligation
BCCJillster: yup Deb
dlee10: so that was very believable for me
beachgal: She probably realized she had made a mistake in marrying him
BCCJillster: she may have known it going in too
BCCJillster: but did it anyway
dlee10: I wonder if David would have love C so much if she had been obtainable. Isabella was there for the taking and he had no interest in her. I don't think that was because of her age either
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : But even before she married him ... why did she keep David at arm's length all the time?
someonegetchristine: I think she did realise her mistake, that led to her breakdown, or whatever it was.
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : Good point, Deb
BCCJillster: He had no chemistry with Isobella
someonegetchristine: he was so off-hand and rude toward Isabella in the beginning
BCCJillster: ewll he did sort of get saddled with her
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : So what caused Christina's breakdown (assuming it was real)? The book? Her mistake?
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : Corelli?
BCCJillster: does anyone remember when the angel's pin was on the floor near the Ms?
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : yup
BCCJillster: I wanted to reread that part, but couldn't find it
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : i'll look for it
dlee10: Perhaps Corelli arrived while C was reading the book. And she went mad because it was so awful not just as a book but because David was capable of writing it.
BCCJillster: that seems a bit fickle, but didn't she say Corelli was trying to enter her mind
someonegetchristine: I didn't understand the C's connection to AC
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : Maybe Corelli did something to her then to get her soul, so she could pull the final trick on David
BCCJillster: Or why he was there when she was little...or did he distort time and plant the pic later?
BCCJillster: in the pic of the man with the white suit I mean
dlee10: Are you sure that man was Corelli?
BCCJillster: OHHHH who was the guy in black with the black eyes that David kept seeing???
BCCJillster: (no Deb, I'm not sure of anything)
dlee10: lol
BCCJillster: David saw him in the mirror mostly, and in the Cemetery
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : which guy? at the Cemetary of Forgotten Books?
BCCJillster: yup, he saw him another time too
dlee10: The bottom line for me was the book got so weird I stopped caring and then stopped paying very much attention to details
someonegetchristine: I don't know, never figured out who that was
BCCJillster: I usually don't mind weird, as we all know, but this was a step too far
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : what about the little boy who kept showing up and guiding David?
BCCJillster: he'll be in the next book
dlee10: I felt like Zafon was messing with my mind just cause he could. No real purpose
BCCJillster: think he's mean?
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : Did Zafon say that or is it a guess? Makes sense ...
BCCJillster: No I made it up
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : good guess ..
someonegetchristine: I've a question about Ricarda - at one point david recognises him in a photo as Diego marlasca?
BCCJillster: there's always someone lurking in the background in Zafon's books
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : Not much in Shadow.
BCCJillster: Oh yes, the author was following him
BCCJillster: Chris, I'm confused about who was who for real there
BCCJillster: Ricardo took over for Marlasca?
someonegetchristine: ok, yeah confusing sorting out who was who
BCCJillster: Julian...that was his name, was following Daniel in Shadow
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : If anyone is not confused by all the characters in that plot, you must have an IQ of 200
dlee10: So it was the cop's body that was identified as Malasca's. Then Marlasca lived as the retired cop
BCCJillster: I think its that there is no sorting it out
BCCJillster: Is that what it was Deb? I was too confused by then
BCCJillster: what was with the smell in the tower room? was that supposed to be Marlasca?
dlee10: That was what I thought although one would think the widow would have known something
BCCJillster: I read this book too erly and can't remember now
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : Did anyone understand about the dolls? The half face? The gravestone with his name?
dlee10: brb
BCCJillster: dolls or the dummies?
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : both ...
BCCJillster: where were the dolls? I forget
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : When David discovered the doll with half his face ... it's described as a doll
BCCJillster: oh
BCCJillster: I dunno...I thought an explanation was coming and it wasn't
BCCJillster: Did Corelli animate them?
BCCJillster: otherwise what purpose would they serve?
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : retroactively?
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : search me!
debbieinca: there was Irene Sabino also
BCCJillster: no....when he wasn't using them...they were dummies waiting for his to use
someonegetchristine: and jaco and roures, theirs was an interesting world...lol
BCCJillster: after all, he had no form
BCCJillster: More confusion Chris LOL
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : Do you guys think all this actually made sense entirely to Zafon?
BCCJillster: What's the consensus on the book then? Did you enjoy it up to the last third?
someonegetchristine: Jill, the youtube video, does it throw much light on the book?
debbieinca: yes untill the last third
BCCJillster: It throws more light on Zafon, I think and that he isn't mean
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : Jill ... the part with the angel pin ... p. 444
BCCJillster: OOO TY
beachgal: I liked it until the last third also
BCCJillster: Oh wait...I have the arc...what chapter?
someonegetchristine: I enjoyed the first part, when david was at the VOI - the third aprt was too hasty and too many things unexplained throughout
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : Chapter 11
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : last page
dlee10: can we rate this one in sections?
BCCJillster: ok thANKS
BCCJillster: LOL good idea Deb...sure
debbieinca: lol
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : I think we have a consensus on the last third
dlee10: Not that I am capable of writing a book but... It seems that a lot of authors have trouble knowing when to stop
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : The only good thing about it is the surprise element, forcing us to think. But I think we'll all be very happy to never hear of Marlasca or Grandes again.
BCCJillster: do you think he wasn't in command of the book or that he was too clever by half?
dlee10: too clever
someonegetchristine: that's my view Jill
someonegetchristine: the plot got away on him somehow
dlee10: you are so much kinder than I am!
BCCJillster: like too much flavoring in the cooking
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : I agree with Deb. He didn't know when to stop.
BCCJillster: I kept hoping he had a plan, that there is SOME answer
BCCJillster: that's why I liked Life of Pi so much, I could just make a choice
dlee10: Life of Pi drove me nuts!
beachgal: Maybe it will have to wait until next novel
BCCJillster: oh dear
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : And then the young Christina stuff at the end ... it seemed so disconnected
BCCJillster: why Deb?
dlee10: I hate having my head messed with unless its woo woo
BCCJillster: the end didn't feel disconnected, it was just desserts in his mind, but if Corelli wasn't real, that messes up my head
someonegetchristine: and difficult to know what parts are woo woo and what parts are not
BCCJillster: Deb, would you have preferred the 'straight story' in Pi then?
dlee10: I am sure the straight story was the real one in Pi.
BCCJillster: I just want Grandee out
dlee10: Don't prefer it but it was still the real one
BCCJillster: LOL Deb, and I preferred the other story...that's why it's fun
dlee10: I have to run. My company has begun to arrive!
BCCJillster: Grandes?...he wrecked it
BCCJillster: BYE
*** (19:58):dlee10.u quit the room
BCCJillster: Well, I'm glad we had such a good time figuring out we can't figure this one out
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : lol
someonegetchristine: lol, I thought you clever people would have all the answers for me !!
beachgal: as an aside I stayed at the Hotel Diagonal in Barcelona a couple of yrs ago
BCCJillster: LOLLLLL keep wishing
BCCJillster: is that one of Gaudi's?
BCCJillster: can you imagine Gaudi's brain????
beachgal: No, a very new hotel
BCCJillster: ohhhh
debbieinca: when I got to the third section I kept saying what, what is hapening
BCCJillster: I think we all did Debbie
someonegetchristine: likewise Deb, I had to stop and re-read sections
beachgal: It was all so confusing at end
debbieinca: yes
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : The Irene thread really threw me off
BCCJillster: I was racing through the last part
BCCJillster: kept thinking more info would come
beachgal:
giving David child Christina was mean
BCCJillster: it sure was
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : well, what do you expect of the devil?
BCCJillster: LOLLLLLL
BCCJillster: very Pacino like
debbieinca: yes
debbieinca: perfect
beachgal: Of course he could have given her to someone else to raise
BCCJillster: Oooo guess what, Kevin Spacey has a new movie out...Trick I think it's called
BCCJillster: then no reason to bring her back..unless to tempt David as an adult again
someonegetchristine.u says to (20:02) *** (18:57):Welcome to New Chatroom , BCCJillster.u!
*** (18:58):Welcome to New Chatroom , bookmuse.bookchatcentral!
BCCJillster: Hi ya Monica
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : Hi Jill!
BCCJillster: I like this screen name better than MF LOL
BCCJillster: I cracked up when I saw your initials
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : Thanks! What about my initials?
BCCJillster: Hey who the heck is Chloe?
*** (18:59):Welcome to New Chatroom , kathylaz.u!
BCCJillster: YAY Kathy.....
kathylaz: hello, everyone
BCCJillster: actually it might be good that you're here Kath
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : Hi Kathy, Monica here
kathylaz: hi monica. why, jill?
BCCJillster: Monica joined us for Angel's game but I'm hoping sh'ell stay
BCCJillster: because none of us understand the ending
kathylaz: ok ... but
BCCJillster: and maybe you can read it with our questions in mind
BCCJillster: but ..?
kathylaz: dave made plans for us, so i have to leave in about 15-20 minutes anyway!
*** (19:01):Welcome to New Chatroom , someonegetchristine.u!
BCCJillster: Oh rats LOL ok
kathylaz: hi chris
BCCJillster: Morning Chris
someonegetchristine: Hi everyone !!
kathylaz: i know i know...i had no idea!
BCCJillster: Chris, did you meet Monica?
someonegetchristine: No I haven't met Moncia -
someonegetchristine: Hi Monica
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : Hi Chris, Monica here!
kathylaz: monica, where are you located? what part of the country/world?
BCCJillster: Chris is in NZ..isn't that great?
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : California, near SF
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : Cool!
BCCJillster: Another Californian!
someonegetchristine: Nice and warm there !
BCCJillster: Sandra is from SF
kathylaz: well represented from the west
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : You're in CA, Jill?
BCCJillster: Nope, Im in VA
BCCJillster: orig fro NYC
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : oh, ok. I thought you were from back east
kathylaz: the other kathy too is from CA
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : where in ca, kathy?
BCCJillster: you heard my accent?
BCCJillster: I think she's near LA
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : Loud and clear, lol
someonegetchristine: lol
*** (19:03):Welcome to New Chatroom , debbieinca.u!
BCCJillster: Hi Deb, another Calif
kathylaz: south, i think
debbieinca: Hi everyone
someonegetchristine: Hi Debbie
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : looks like another californian
kathylaz: hi deb
kathylaz: another CA person!
BCCJillster: Deb meet Monica, near SF
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : lol
debbieinca: Hi Monica where are you at?
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : Hi Deb!
*** (19:04):Welcome to New Chatroom , beachgal.u!
kathylaz: and another floridian
kathylaz: hi rema
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : SF East Bay
someonegetchristine: Hi Rema
debbieinca: Hi Rema
beachgal: Hello everyone
BCCJillster: Hi Rema, welcome
debbieinca: I am from the central valley where it is hot
BCCJillster: Karen said she won't make it, and Betsy is away, Mary is working
debbieinca: I am going to the Ferry Building Wed.
beachgal: There is a thunderstorm here in MB
BCCJillster: uh oh
kathylaz: i think i can hear it all the way up here!
*** (19:05):Welcome to New Chatroom , dlee10.u!
BCCJillster: ok let's get into the book then...OOOO GOOEIE HI DEB
someonegetchristine: Hi Deb !!
kathylaz: hey deb
BCCJillster: GLAD You made it
dlee10: Hello everyone!
beachgal: Hi DEb
dlee10: Thanks!
BCCJillster: btw, Bookmuse is Monica
debbieinca: hi to another Deb
dlee10: How many debs are here?
BCCJillster: would someone remind me who Chloe is?
debbieinca: me
debbieinca: lol
dlee10: Chloe was the woman David wrote about in his first series
BCCJillster: totally forgot her
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : and had the dream ... or whatever it was he had with her
BCCJillster: before Corelli?
someonegetchristine: yes, thats right,
debbieinca: yes
BCCJillster: ok thanks
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : because of Corellli
dlee10: Corelli gave the "dream" to him
BCCJillster: Oh?
BCCJillster: geee, I
BCCJillster: I'll have to look at that again
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : He sent him the note to go there, right?
kathylaz: wasn't it also who he lost his virginity with?
beachgal: yes
dlee10: Yes. How?
someonegetchristine: yes thats what I thought
BCCJillster: how? LOL
kathylaz: how?
kathylaz: funny
BCCJillster: what did youean Deb?
dlee10: Well, if she wasn't real did he really loose his virginity?
BCCJillster: Oh got ya
dlee10: I guess it is a state of mind
BCCJillster: was anything real? you guys have confused me as much as the book did
BCCJillster: Kathy, should we tell you what's going on in the discussion?
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : It was a dream to the extent that we can tell a difference between a dream and reality in this whole book!
kathylaz: nah, if i get lost, i'll speak up
kathylaz: thanks, though
dlee10: sometimes the dream is better
BCCJillster: ok....so as far as I can tell, either the tumor dun it or Corelli was real
BCCJillster: if it was a real tumor, why didn't david die?
debbieinca: the angle pin confused me
dlee10: If Corelli created the tumor he could cure it too
BCCJillster: agree Dlee
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : Either it was all a dream, or else Corelli was real and supernatural and could make anything happen
BCCJillster: but if Corelli was real (as in the devil), then what David thought happened, did
dlee10: If Corelli was indeed the devil I would think he could alter David's reality
BCCJillster: that's a good explanation
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : Maybe we can start by trying to understand this whole notion of what's "real" in AG. How can we tell fact from fantasy in a book like this?
BCCJillster: I can't wrap myself around Corelli being imagined
BCCJillster: do you think there's an answer to that Monica?
dlee10: I don't think we are meant to tell the difference between reality and fantasy
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : Not really ... I'm hoping someone can take a shot at it, though? ;-)
BCCJillster: I was willing to go for the ride
dlee10: I think the angel pin was just tossed in there. I didn't make much of G's comment
BCCJillster: Sempere, who we know is real, sent him to the Cemetery...where he saw Lux..
kathylaz: it's not just a pin, but angels show up all over, don't they?
*** (19:13):someonegetchristine.u quit the room
kathylaz: oops
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : I was going nicely for the ride and tried to believe David, until Grandes shot down the entire version of reality David had laid out for us
BCCJillster: she'll come back
dlee10: I don't remember any other angels!
kathylaz: there was one on a doorknob (wasn't it the library?)
BCCJillster: oh right
kathylaz: door knocker
kathylaz: and another was on the side of a building
dlee10: Oh. The Devil was a fallen angel after all
BCCJillster: Was Marlasca and his writing of the other book real?
kathylaz: right
BCCJillster: I laughed when Corelli made the crack about being thrown out of his father's house
kathylaz: me too!
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : LOL.
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : That was a big clue
*** (19:15):Welcome to New Chatroom , someonegetchristine.u!
dlee10: Proof that we were meant to believe he was the devil
BCCJillster: If Marlasca wasn't real, why all those deaths?
kathylaz: welcome back, chris
BCCJillster: wb Chris
someonegetchristine: sorry about that...problems with connection
BCCJillster: are you on dial up?
someonegetchristine: no wireless, signal is weak upstairs so moved down!!
kathylaz: that's what i've been wondering; why all the deaths when David tries to find traces of marlasca
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : The whole Marlasca subplot is shot down by Grandes. I think it wasn't real.
BCCJillster: then what was it?
dlee10: My biggest issue was when David destroyed Marlasca's book. Christina had not been able to burn David's so why was he able to destroy M's?
BCCJillster: those people died didn't they?
someonegetchristine: yes Jill, I believe they did
beachgal: I still think that David got carried away after writing all those fantasies in the beginning and it all was a dream
someonegetchristine: didn't they??
BCCJillster: if it was a drewam, what's the epilogue?
BCCJillster: great typing sorry
BCCJillster: you're in the majority Rema
dlee10: Zafon said this was the second of 4 planned books
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : I think Lux Aeterna freaked him out. That and the tower house.
someonegetchristine: I was wondering if he itnends to develop the characters further on
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : If it was a fantasy, how could people die?
BCCJillster: but the info came piecemeal and the deaths were a result
BCCJillster: God I hope not Chris...I've had enough of these folks LOL
BCCJillster: except the Semperes and Isaac
kathylaz: !funny
beachgal: It was all a novel he was writing
dlee10: I don't think the main characters will be the same
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : Everyone is welcome back in the novel with the exception of the Marlasca gang. Good riddance!
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : next novel, I mean
BCCJillster: they're all dead anyway
debbieinca: lol
someonegetchristine: was David 'directly' responsible for any of the deaths if thy were real
dlee10: I preferred Shadow
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : If they were real, yes Chris
BCCJillster: David would have had to burn down the publishers, and I don't think he did
someonegetchristine: he was always on or around the scene
BCCJillster: unless he really was living in the fantasy
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : Not directly. He didn't kill anyone. But he knew that people were dying and places burning down everywhere he went.
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : How could someone with a conscience not realize that and keep going? That's why I think it must have been a fantasy.
BCCJillster: well either corelli was a resence, or he was in David's imagination, can't be a combo
kathylaz: (quietly sneaking out. see you on the boards)
*** (19:21):kathylaz.u quit the room
BCCJillster: See ya Kathy
someonegetchristine: bye kathy!
BCCJillster: that was presence
BCCJillster: and Fire seemed to be Corelli's weapon of choice
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : Did anyone "real," such as Sempres or Isabella ever have contact with Corelli?
dlee10: When people say the devil made them do it are they talking figuratively or was the devil really there if you see what I mean
BCCJillster: I do
someonegetchristine: something within them forced their hand,
BCCJillster: it's a shame that the last third of the book took somuch away from all that came before
dlee10: I still think Corelli was literally there. I'm just playing devil's advocate
BCCJillster: LOLLL
BCCJillster: I do too Deb
someonegetchristine: we never learn who he really is though, do we
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : Agree, Jill. THe last third is almost like a separate book.
dlee10: I didn't like the little christina part
BCCJillster: I wonder how Zafon is reacting to everyone's displeaure with the last third....would he be gleeful or learn from it?
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : Except that it raises the possibility of things not being real, forcing us to reconsider everything
BCCJillster: I wouldn't mind that if I could just choose which I believed without it being a half and half
beachgal: If it all "really" happened why wasn't Interpol looking for David?
someonegetchristine: depends on what his intention was I guess
dlee10: Zafon is probably thrilled that he got people talking
BCCJillster: What do you mean Rema? Because he murdered people?
beachgal: yes
BCCJillster: if it was real, he didn't, COrelli and Ricardo did
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : I really hope Zafon is listening to the criticism. He's so immensely talented that it would be a shame if he went the way of conventional thrillers and ignored what people say.
dlee10: There was no proof that David did anything. He only had motive
beachgal: Zafron got his wish, people take different things away from the novel
BCCJillster: this is true
BCCJillster: he's so good at writing atmosphere and getting the reader caught up....
BCCJillster: I don't think of them as thrillers though I guess technically they are
someonegetchristine: why did Grandes say to david at the end that he didn't care whether david was telling the truth or not, I didn't get that, why pursue him, if not to find out the truth
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : I don't mind the part about taking away different things and creating ambiguity. WHat I mind is the cheap thrills, chases, bloody serial murders, narrow escapes, etc
dlee10: a woo woo thriller
BCCJillster: I thought it was cause Grandee was getting paid anyway...and was politically IN
someonegetchristine: yes, ok
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : Doesn't anyone think he liked David a little?
dlee10: no.
BCCJillster: thought so at first...but not later
dlee10: he betrayed him
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : He did. But he went to a lot of trouble to verify his story. Unless that part's a lie, but I think it's true.
BCCJillster: I felt for Isobella...she was understandable and then...poof she dies
dlee10: let him escape so the others could beat him out of police custody
dlee10: She had to die in order to make Shadow of the Wind real
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : what difference does it make where they beat him up to death?
BCCJillster: less accountable if it's out of the station
dlee10: It wouldn't look good for the police if it happened to a prisoner but it would be fine for an escapee
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : It didn't seem like accountability was a big issue with those people.
BCCJillster: why did Cristina have to die when she did? Was she avoiding Corelli?
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : The best part was the coninuity with Shadow, even if Zafon had to kill Isabella
BCCJillster: and if David imagined it...why did C die at all?
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : I'm totally confused about Christina's death.
BCCJillster: Monica, would you mind making your font a little bigger?
dlee10: Or avoiding David. She was horrifyed about the book he wrote for Corelli. He proved he was a coward by not destroying it
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : lemme see
BCCJillster: (It's under the AA)
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : Better?
BCCJillster: much tanks
BCCJillster: coward or coldn't kill his own child?
someonegetchristine: her role thoughout the book was unconvincing, Isabella had more purpose
BCCJillster: but C was his muse, no?
BCCJillster: his obsession
dlee10: Christina loved David and he proved just as unworthy as Vidal
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : I agree about Isabella. I liked her much better than Christina.
BCCJillster: ditto...C was too weak
someonegetchristine: although she irritated David with her housekeeping !
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : She didn't seem believable from the beginning. True love doesn't work that way. C's way.
debbieinca: do you think that is why she married Vidal because she was weak
BCCJillster: nothing true about her love....yes Deb...she felt she owed him
someonegetchristine: weak and felt sorry for him too
dlee10: I didn't mean true love. But I do think C and
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : I have no idea why she married him. To create a plot, I guess.
dlee10: David loved each other in their own twisted ways
BCCJillster: he was responsible for takinhg care of her father and her
BCCJillster: David seemed to accept C was unattainable for the most part
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : I think David loved her completely and unconditionally. Christina kept pulling away, but then in those letters she seemed totally in love. Makes no sense.
dlee10: I know people in "real life" who married out of a feeling of obligation
BCCJillster: yup Deb
dlee10: so that was very believable for me
beachgal: She probably realized she had made a mistake in marrying him
BCCJillster: she may have known it going in too
BCCJillster: but did it anyway
dlee10: I wonder if David would have love C so much if she had been obtainable. Isabella was there for the taking and he had no interest in her. I don't think that was because of her age either
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : But even before she married him ... why did she keep David at arm's length all the time?
someonegetchristine: I think she did realise her mistake, that led to her breakdown, or whatever it was.
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : Good point, Deb
BCCJillster: He had no chemistry with Isobella
someonegetchristine: he was so off-hand and rude toward Isabella in the beginning
BCCJillster: ewll he did sort of get saddled with her
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : So what caused Christina's breakdown (assuming it was real)? The book? Her mistake?
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : Corelli?
BCCJillster: does anyone remember when the angel's pin was on the floor near the Ms?
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : yup
BCCJillster: I wanted to reread that part, but couldn't find it
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : i'll look for it
dlee10: Perhaps Corelli arrived while C was reading the book. And she went mad because it was so awful not just as a book but because David was capable of writing it.
BCCJillster: that seems a bit fickle, but didn't she say Corelli was trying to enter her mind
someonegetchristine: I didn't understand the C's connection to AC
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : Maybe Corelli did something to her then to get her soul, so she could pull the final trick on David
BCCJillster: Or why he was there when she was little...or did he distort time and plant the pic later?
BCCJillster: in the pic of the man with the white suit I mean
dlee10: Are you sure that man was Corelli?
BCCJillster: OHHHH who was the guy in black with the black eyes that David kept seeing???
BCCJillster: (no Deb, I'm not sure of anything)
dlee10: lol
BCCJillster: David saw him in the mirror mostly, and in the Cemetery
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : which guy? at the Cemetary of Forgotten Books?
BCCJillster: yup, he saw him another time too
dlee10: The bottom line for me was the book got so weird I stopped caring and then stopped paying very much attention to details
someonegetchristine: I don't know, never figured out who that was
BCCJillster: I usually don't mind weird, as we all know, but this was a step too far
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : what about the little boy who kept showing up and guiding David?
BCCJillster: he'll be in the next book
dlee10: I felt like Zafon was messing with my mind just cause he could. No real purpose
BCCJillster: think he's mean?
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : Did Zafon say that or is it a guess? Makes sense ...
BCCJillster: No I made it up
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : good guess ..
someonegetchristine: I've a question about Ricarda - at one point david recognises him in a photo as Diego marlasca?
BCCJillster: there's always someone lurking in the background in Zafon's books
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : Not much in Shadow.
BCCJillster: Oh yes, the author was following him
BCCJillster: Chris, I'm confused about who was who for real there
BCCJillster: Ricardo took over for Marlasca?
someonegetchristine: ok, yeah confusing sorting out who was who
BCCJillster: Julian...that was his name, was following Daniel in Shadow
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : If anyone is not confused by all the characters in that plot, you must have an IQ of 200
dlee10: So it was the cop's body that was identified as Malasca's. Then Marlasca lived as the retired cop
BCCJillster: I think its that there is no sorting it out
BCCJillster: Is that what it was Deb? I was too confused by then
BCCJillster: what was with the smell in the tower room? was that supposed to be Marlasca?
dlee10: That was what I thought although one would think the widow would have known something
BCCJillster: I read this book too erly and can't remember now
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : Did anyone understand about the dolls? The half face? The gravestone with his name?
dlee10: brb
BCCJillster: dolls or the dummies?
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : both ...
BCCJillster: where were the dolls? I forget
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : When David discovered the doll with half his face ... it's described as a doll
BCCJillster: oh
BCCJillster: I dunno...I thought an explanation was coming and it wasn't
BCCJillster: Did Corelli animate them?
BCCJillster: otherwise what purpose would they serve?
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : retroactively?
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : search me!
debbieinca: there was Irene Sabino also
BCCJillster: no....when he wasn't using them...they were dummies waiting for his to use
someonegetchristine: and jaco and roures, theirs was an interesting world...lol
BCCJillster: after all, he had no form
BCCJillster: More confusion Chris LOL
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : Do you guys think all this actually made sense entirely to Zafon?
BCCJillster: What's the consensus on the book then? Did you enjoy it up to the last third?
someonegetchristine: Jill, the youtube video, does it throw much light on the book?
debbieinca: yes untill the last third
BCCJillster: It throws more light on Zafon, I think and that he isn't mean
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : Jill ... the part with the angel pin ... p. 444
BCCJillster: OOO TY
beachgal: I liked it until the last third also
BCCJillster: Oh wait...I have the arc...what chapter?
someonegetchristine: I enjoyed the first part, when david was at the VOI - the third aprt was too hasty and too many things unexplained throughout
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : Chapter 11
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : last page
dlee10: can we rate this one in sections?
BCCJillster: ok thANKS
BCCJillster: LOL good idea Deb...sure
debbieinca: lol
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : I think we have a consensus on the last third
dlee10: Not that I am capable of writing a book but... It seems that a lot of authors have trouble knowing when to stop
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : The only good thing about it is the surprise element, forcing us to think. But I think we'll all be very happy to never hear of Marlasca or Grandes again.
BCCJillster: do you think he wasn't in command of the book or that he was too clever by half?
dlee10: too clever
someonegetchristine: that's my view Jill
someonegetchristine: the plot got away on him somehow
dlee10: you are so much kinder than I am!
BCCJillster: like too much flavoring in the cooking
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : I agree with Deb. He didn't know when to stop.
BCCJillster: I kept hoping he had a plan, that there is SOME answer
BCCJillster: that's why I liked Life of Pi so much, I could just make a choice
dlee10: Life of Pi drove me nuts!
beachgal: Maybe it will have to wait until next novel
BCCJillster: oh dear
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : And then the young Christina stuff at the end ... it seemed so disconnected
BCCJillster: why Deb?
dlee10: I hate having my head messed with unless its woo woo
BCCJillster: the end didn't feel disconnected, it was just desserts in his mind, but if Corelli wasn't real, that messes up my head
someonegetchristine: and difficult to know what parts are woo woo and what parts are not
BCCJillster: Deb, would you have preferred the 'straight story' in Pi then?
dlee10: I am sure the straight story was the real one in Pi.
BCCJillster: I just want Grandee out
dlee10: Don't prefer it but it was still the real one
BCCJillster: LOL Deb, and I preferred the other story...that's why it's fun
dlee10: I have to run. My company has begun to arrive!
BCCJillster: Grandes?...he wrecked it
BCCJillster: BYE
*** (19:58):dlee10.u quit the room
BCCJillster: Well, I'm glad we had such a good time figuring out we can't figure this one out
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : lol
someonegetchristine: lol, I thought you clever people would have all the answers for me !!
beachgal: as an aside I stayed at the Hotel Diagonal in Barcelona a couple of yrs ago
BCCJillster: LOLLLLL keep wishing
BCCJillster: is that one of Gaudi's?
BCCJillster: can you imagine Gaudi's brain????
beachgal: No, a very new hotel
BCCJillster: ohhhh
debbieinca: when I got to the third section I kept saying what, what is hapening
BCCJillster: I think we all did Debbie
someonegetchristine: likewise Deb, I had to stop and re-read sections
beachgal: It was all so confusing at end
debbieinca: yes
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : The Irene thread really threw me off
BCCJillster: I was racing through the last part
BCCJillster: kept thinking more info would come
beachgal:
giving David child Christina was mean
BCCJillster: it sure was
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : well, what do you expect of the devil?
BCCJillster: LOLLLLLL
BCCJillster: very Pacino like
debbieinca: yes
debbieinca: perfect
beachgal: Of course he could have given her to someone else to raise
BCCJillster: Oooo guess what, Kevin Spacey has a new movie out...Trick I think it's called
BCCJillster: then no reason to bring her back..unless to tempt David as an adult again
someonegetchristine: swings and roundabouts !
bookmuse.bookchatcentral : I think that's what he said, Corelli
someonegetchristine: lol
BCCJillster: Chris are you still up North?
someonegetchristine: Yes
BCCJillster: Mum any batter?
BCCJillster: better
someonegetchristine: for a few more days...just the same, slow progress if any, we're just watching things at th moment, still at home though
BCCJillster: wish you all the best
someonegetchristine: thanks !!
BCCJillster: well I'm going to save this log
debbieinca: I am glad she is at home, hard on you though
BCCJillster: brb
