Good chat! Thanks to all for being there!
wernoclue: Hi, Deb!
dlee10: Hi! How are you doing?
wernoclue: Good, and you?
dlee10: Good. The rain finally stopped!
wernoclue: How much rain did you get? I hear Pbrgh really got pounded.
dlee10: I drove my daughter back to college yesterday. Very Long day
wernoclue: Rema, Welcome!
dlee10: hi there
dlee10: It's been raining fairly steadily all week
beachgal: Hi Karen, dee
wernoclue: Wow. Despite how hot it's been, I think there's been more rain across the country this summer, too, hasn't there?
beachgal: We have rain almost every day in S Fl
dlee10: I think so. Except in the spots where there has been drought
wernoclue: I know western Kansas and eastern Colorado are a lot greener this year than I've EVER seen them.
beachgal: We are still in drought
dlee10: And we have too much. Where is the happy medium?
wernoclue: So have you not been getting rain then, Rema, or just not enough?
wernoclue: BRB -- need a beverage before we get started.
wernoclue: I think Sandra was planning to be here -- based on her comments in the Spoilers thread -- but I don't know about anyone else.
beachgal: We are getting rain, but Lake Okeechobee is still below normal. Somany months without rain
beachgal: This was a delightful fairy tale book
beachgal: still some quibbles
dlee10: I liked it mostly but there were parts that were a bit much to swallow
wernoclue: Back -- and I agree with that, Deb.
wernoclue: Yay! Sandra!
bayjoens: Whew! For once, I made it!
bayjoens: Hi guys!
wernoclue: Sandra, Rema just commented that this was a nice fairy tale type of a book, but we all seem to have some quibbles with it.
beachgal: Hi Sandra
dlee10: I was less interested in Cassandra's story line
bayjoens: Yes, I agree with Rema, but I think I may just not have been in the mood.
wernoclue: Hmmm, I think I was in the mood when I read it a few years ago and I still had issues with it.
bayjoens: I didn't have a lot of patience for the descriptive prose, had a tendency to skim the garden descriptions etc.
wernoclue: Remind me -- Cassandra is the youngest, the one who discovers all the truths.
bayjoens: She is the one in modern day.
bayjoens: Also I feel like the back-and-forth in time thing has been overdone in recent years.
dlee10: When Cass started dreaming important aspects of Eliza's life I thought it was a bit too much
wernoclue: O.K. And her mother isn't really in the picturel; Nell is her grandmother and Eliza is her mother, right?
bayjoens: I agree, Deb.
bayjoens: Yes, Lesley is totally skipped.
bayjoens: Probably because she didn't fit quite right in the timeline.
wernoclue: I don't remember that but I think I'd agree, too. Sort of a "cheat" to get a part of the story told that didn't otherwise work out.
dlee10: There had to be a better way to introduce the info
bayjoens: Lesley could have easily been killed off quite early as well.
dlee10: Abandonment made Cass more like Nell though
wernoclue: LOL Poor Lesley -- we don't even know her and we're killing her off!
beachgal: Or she could have played the role Cassandra did
bayjoens: Yes, but I had issues with that.
wernoclue: Sandra, I agreed with everything you said in your last two posts in the Spoilers thread. Including the lack of attachment thing.
wernoclue: I think that just worked for the story.
bayjoens: I didn't like the implication that the early abandonement of Nell made her unable to bond with her child.
dlee10: I thought that even given the time frame, Nell could have been returned to her family. It was a stretch to think that she couldn't have been.
bayjoens: Yes, Karen, I agree but thought it was a cheap shot and didn't have to be.
beachgal: First, her voyage on the ship, not smart to leave a 4 yr old by herself. Should have revisted her child hood home earlier
bayjoens: Rema, I think Eliza felt she didn't have a choice.
wernoclue: Eliza left her alone and wasn't she, Eliza, left alone a lot at very young ages?
bayjoens: Also sometimes we have to look at these things through the eyes of those who lived in the culture or the times.
dlee10: Who thought that Eliza was "with" the uncle at first?
wernoclue: I can't really remember...
bayjoens: Last year when we were in Russia, the guide told us what she thought was an amusing story of what a mess her niece made in the house when she was left alone while they worked.
bayjoens: The neice was 4 years old.
beachgal: It was unclear, eliza and ule+
bayjoens: I think the guide was puzzled at our horrified expressions.
bayjoens: Deb, I thought maybe at the very first, until Eliza was explaining how she "had" to do it.
bayjoens: Then I knew who it was.
dlee10: same here. but when the uncle was described as having an unhealthy fixation on his sister, I kept waiting for him to "attack" Eliza.
wernoclue: Kathy! Welcome!
bayjoens: Yes, the uncle definitely creepy. And did he really try to cut his sister's throat?
kathylaz: Hello everyone
bayjoens: That surprised me.
beachgal: hi Kathy
kathylaz: i didn't read the book, but wanted to stop by and say hello
bayjoens: Hi Kathy!
wernoclue: Well, then, Hello!
wernoclue: We're glad you did.
kathylaz: how was this book?
dlee10: I liked it. Didn't love it.
wernoclue: A gothic fairy tale. Depends on your mood. Not my fave.
bayjoens: Hi Olle!
beachgal: Easy reading
wernoclue: Olle, Hi there!
kathylaz: hi olle
Olle: Hi all!
dlee10: Hi olle!
kathylaz: hi betsy
bayjoens: And Betsy!
wernoclue: And Betsy! Wow, we're filling up here!
Olle: Hi B
dlee10: Full house today. Wonderful!!
bayjoens: Betsy, is it Curt's birthday today?
Blanchard: Hi all, So sorry I'm so late!
kathylaz: i might have liked it, since i like gothic and fairies
beachgal: Hi, y'all late comers
Blanchard: Tomorrow, Sandra. When is yours?
Blanchard: Well Happy Birthday!
kathylaz: to you and to curt!
dlee10: Happy almost Birthday
wernoclue: Betsy, are you and Curt planning anything special?
Blanchard: Curt says Thanks everybody!
beachgal: yes, have a happy birthday Sandra and wish a Happy birthday for Curt
Blanchard: Out to dinner, his pick of restaurant.
Olle: and his pick of restaurant in Paris?
Blanchard: Shh, I bought him a new rice cooker
Blanchard: lol Karen
wernoclue: Just had to try out that feature!
Blanchard: Our old one is from the early 80's
Blanchard: what did you say?
bayjoens: Oh, romantic.
Blanchard: yeah, isn't it?
Blanchard: He bought a firepit for his own b'day
Blanchard: He cannot be "gifted".
bayjoens: I bought myself some boots.
Blanchard: If he wants it, he gets it.
Blanchard: That's nice, Sandra.
wernoclue: So, Betsy, Olle -- how did you two feel about the book?
Blanchard: I liked it a lot
Olle: I liked it as well
Blanchard: Not loved it but liked it well enough.
dlee10: Whose storyline did you enjoy the most?
Olle: Not sure, I read it awhile ago.
Olle: How about you?
dlee10: eliza was a little dickensish
Blanchard: She was for me the most interesting character
Blanchard: lol. True Olle.
bayjoens: The thing about this new fashion of time jumping is that I think people "pad" their books with it.
Blanchard: Remind me, Eliza wasn't Nell was she?
wernoclue: Eliza? I agree.
bayjoens: I didn't really need Cassandra.
bayjoens: Eliza was Nell's mother.
Blanchard: Cassandra was a brat.
Blanchard: Oh Okay
wernoclue: Well, you had to have somebody, didn't you?
bayjoens: The story could have been told in the time and place just as well.
bayjoens: Or Nell could have figured it out.
dlee10: Cass was my least favorite. Nell was the most interesting. Even though I think she threw what was left of her life away unnecessarily
Blanchard: I don't mind time jumps. Doesn't bother me.
wernoclue: Doesn't bother me, either.
bayjoens: I wonder if it is an author's device so that modern audiences can connect more easily with the storyline.
Blanchard: It allows the author to cover more territory and tie up loose ends of storylines.
dlee10: the time jumps drove me nuts at first
bayjoens: Betsy, not that the time jumps bother me so much when done well but I think the device has been overdone and isn't always needed.
wernoclue: Just finished one last night that was like that; It was a little more difficult than most to follow, though.
Blanchard: Fair enuf.
wernoclue: The Lantern
bayjoens: For me, it has become gimmicky.
wernoclue: I don't really recommend it, though it may have been about mood.
bayjoens: Just a personal preference, I think. I like a clean well-told story.
bayjoens: I don't need all the embellishments.
Blanchard: If you followed those characters from beg to end, it would be a LOOOONG book!
wernoclue: It does seem to be done more these days, doesn't it? I'm trying to think of older stories that do that and coming up blank.
beachgal: This one was the first I read in some time that had time jumps. Doesn't bother me
bayjoens: I don't think Cassandra was needed. Nell could have figured it out.
dlee10: I think she would have if Leslie hadn't dropped Cass off just when she did
wernoclue: Do you think it added an extra touch of something that Nell missed out on finding out, though? WAs she even still alive when Cass discovered all?
bayjoens: Really, Rema. I feel like so many books I have read recently use the device. I will have to look back in my lists and see if this is true or I am just imagining.
Blanchard: Since I generally read mysteries, I don't get jumps all that often.
kathylaz: (ignore me .... i'm quietly slipping away since i didn't read the book....enjoy, all)
beachgal: Nell could have changed her plans. Going back again from Australia would have been more expensive that changing dates
wernoclue: OOps... Did Olle bounce or really leave...
bayjoens: Think Olle must have bounced.
wernoclue: I don't remember those details well enough.
Blanchard: That's true Rema but then how could the rest of it happen?
bayjoens: Without Cassandra, Nell could have figured it all out in the same ways.
Blanchard: I can't say I recall all that well either Karen. I read it a while ago.
bayjoens: If not for Cassandra, Nell would received that letter.
beachgal: It still would have been an interesting book, much shorter
bayjoens: Exactly, Rema.
Blanchard: You have to have conflict otherwise no story and Cass did that.
wernoclue: Wait. What letter?
dlee10: sometimes shorter is better if it makes a stronger book
bayjoens: Nell had same conflicts though, don't you think?
wernoclue: This author is certainly wordy, no doubt about that.
bayjoens: Karen, looking...
Blanchard: I think this author may be paid per page. All hers are doorstoppers!
wernoclue: Exactly, Betsy.
bayjoens: Harriet Swindell's letter about what happened to Eliza.
beachgal: the letter was from the daughter of where she lived as a child
wernoclue: Sometimes I'm good with that, sometimes not.
wernoclue: Ah. thanks, Sandra.
Blanchard: HS needed some satisfying comeuppance!
bayjoens: How Eliza went back to get the locket and then was abducted.
wernoclue: Ah, Olle -- WB!
Olle: (everything froze)
Blanchard: Yes, tie yourself here!
wernoclue: *hate* when that happens.
bayjoens: Also if Nell had stayed, she would have eventually connected with Mary who would have told her the truth as she told Cassandra.
dlee10: did anyone ever retrieve the locket? I can't remember
Blanchard: Don't you wish Swindell (what a name for that character!) needed something satisfying to happen to her?
beachgal: Yes, b uried with Eliza
bayjoens: I know, Olle, and then I sit there and try to decide whether to be patient and hope it unfreezes or reboot.
bayjoens: Yes, Betsy, but it didn't seem to.
bayjoens: Probably no room because it would have made the book even longer.
Blanchard: No it didn't. That bothered me.
bayjoens: But that is a bit of what I mean, instead using space with Cassandra's story, I would have preferred more development on that side.
Blanchard: Aw there had to be room for one sentence!
Blanchard: I agree now that I think of that.
bayjoens: Oh and who was the "evil" one that Georgiana warned the children about, her brother or Mansell?
Blanchard: Such a Dickensish character herself! With even a Dickens name!!
Blanchard: Mansell I think
beachgal: also, why did Rose turn against Eliza? She could have been an "auntie"
bayjoens: Oh and did her brother really try to cut her throat?
bayjoens: Rema, that one I can talk about because I have personal experience with it.
Blanchard: She had a scar to prove it!
bayjoens: My own mother distanced herself from her family and friends who knew I was adopted. She was afraid the truth would come out.
bayjoens: She was threatened by what they knew.
Blanchard: Which of course it eventually did!
bayjoens: Betsy, she had a scar? I don't remember that at all.
Blanchard: As it always does.
Blanchard: Didn't she? I shouldn't make statements that I can't back up.
bayjoens: No, I don't know about always, Betsy, but often.
Blanchard: It's been a while.
wernoclue: Sandra, is that your adoptive mother you mean.
bayjoens: No, it is probably there but I was surprised by that one.
bayjoens: Right, Karen.
bayjoens: I thought Adelaide and Linus deserved each other.
beachgal: I was a gurdian ad litem for awhile, and one of my cases, a child abandoned at birth by her mother had an open adoption with the grandmother.
bayjoens: Rema, do you mean that she was adopted by her grandmother?
Blanchard: Interesting Rema.
bayjoens: I am not sure what the term "open" means in that case.
beachgal: no, her gm knew who she was adopted by.
Blanchard: G'mothers often adopt their grands these days.
bayjoens: "open" meaning "public" or "known"?
bayjoens: Rema, was she adopted by the grandmother?
Blanchard: I personally know of one. It's far from ideal.
beachgal: known, she could have some interaction with gd, but she lived out of town.
wernoclue: Ah, I see. She was adopted by strangers but her grandmother knew who they were.
bayjoens: Well one of our nephews was adopted by his aunt and everyone knows and has always known.
wernoclue: Well, those adoptive parents won't be trying to keep it a secret!
wernoclue: Deb, you still there? You're awfully quiet!
Blanchard: foolishness, imo, to keep secrets!
dlee10: still here!
bayjoens: No big deal except that this boy has a LOT of mothers because his adopted mother is gay and he was adopted by her and her partner at the time and they share custody.
Blanchard: Soap Operas depend on secrets!
Olle: seems like that kind of secret comes out eventually
wernoclue: Does he have any fathers?
beachgal: I hope some of these children who I worked with never find their true mothers.
Blanchard: who are we discussing?
wernoclue: Sandra's nephew?
Blanchard: It's not always a good idea, right Rema?
wernoclue: Or something like that...
bayjoens: Yes, he has a flaky birth father but even that relationship is influenced by father's wife who is great and tried to keep them connected.
dlee10: But do you think Nell's turning from the family that she adored when she found out that they wern't related by blood was "normal" And do you think it odd that she (at 4 years old) wouldn't remember another family? I'm saying that I found it odd that she
Blanchard: Curt never wanted to search for his.
wernoclue: Ah, the novel Never Knowing is about a woman finding her bio mom and all kinds of trouble at the same time.
bayjoens: Rema, I know who my birth mother is but she won't have anything to do with me.
Blanchard: You're better off imo, Sandra.
bayjoens: However, I am good friends with my siblings and see one quite often.
wernoclue: Deb, I find her lack of memory odd, unless she was really traumatized by the abandonment. I remember lots from the age of 4.
Blanchard: Yes, I agree, Deb
dlee10: That is what I was trying to say but the puter stopped typing
bayjoens: Thanks, Betsy. I am okay with it but would like to at least meet her someday which I don't think will happen.
bayjoens: Karen, lack of Nell's memory?
wernoclue: And is it odd that she turned her back... Maybe she was incensed that she'd been lied to and then told in a bad way.
bayjoens: I thought she remembered but thought she couldn't say because of the "game".
wernoclue: Yes, Nell's lack of memory about her birth family.
beachgal: I don't have really any memory of my early days. Maybe, becuase my mother died when I was 15, I repressed it.
wernoclue: Ah, that's right.... And she took the game too far, didn't she...
dlee10: I could see Nell turning her back on her father but Not her sisters
Blanchard: I found Nell's withdrawal from her family after being told, really disturbing.
bayjoens: Yeah, I almost dumped the book at that point.
wernoclue: I forgot about sisters, too.
Olle: Rema, that would make sense for you. Too painful.
Blanchard: It didn't make sense to me that she dumped her fiance and whole family!
bayjoens: There again, I think the relationship could have been fleshed out instead of using the space for Cassandra.
bayjoens: And the fiance sounded great!
dlee10: I would have clung to the fiance. He would have been the one thing I chose to keep in my life
Blanchard: What did they have to do with her father's secret?
beachgal: yes, she should have realized that was really her family
bayjoens: The more I think about it, the more I think the modern timeline is a device to hook modern audiences so they relate better.
Blanchard: Just had to have been because of the time
dlee10: Especially since she was described as being a caring person
bayjoens: To capture the audiences who would be turned off by a "period" piece.
Blanchard: It's tough to relate to that decision isn't it?
dlee10: I can't
Blanchard: I have a dd who won't read books that take place before the 50's (think that's the deadline!).
bayjoens: Yes, in the long run, in terms of Nell's life, wasn't she better off with Hugh and his family than if he had responded to the inquiry and returned her to birth family?
wernoclue: Oh, heavens!
Blanchard: THAT doesn't make sense to me either!
dlee10: Dear Abby would have told Hugh to keep the secret. The only reason to reveal it would be to make himself feel better. Selfish
wernoclue: Either me, Bets.
Blanchard: I think so Sandra but then where's the story?
bayjoens: Betsy, that certainly is limiting. How about these time jumping books? Do they count if only part of them takes place early?
bayjoens: Right Betsy.
Blanchard: Who knows?! None of it makes sense to me!
bayjoens: Then it definitely would have been more Dickensian. :P
bayjoens: Molested by the weird old uncle and keep in the attic by mad and jealous aunt.
beachgal: She still could have been curious about her birth family and checked it out without turning into someone else
wernoclue: But where's the drama in that?
Blanchard: It would have been a different story but probably a good one.
dlee10: Eliza could have said No to being impregnated. Ick.
Blanchard: "Up a palm tree, down a well"
bayjoens: Oh but then the book might be the book about the mad wife int he attic. What's the name? By Bronte? Not Jane Eyre?
wernoclue: She just wasn't accustomed to ever saying no to whatshername, right?
bayjoens: Wide Sargasso Sea story?
beachgal: All she did for Rose, then being rejected over one little gift
wernoclue: Jane Eyre does have a mad wife in teh attic.
bayjoens: Oh maybe Jane Eyre then.
dlee10: There have GoT to be limits to what you will do for your cousin!
bayjoens: I was confusing it with Wuthering Heights.
Blanchard: You think?!
wernoclue: Agreed, Deb! LOL
bayjoens: Well there are grandmothers and sisters who have done similar for their families, aren't there?
Blanchard: They are all similar imo.
wernoclue: Yes, but in a different sort of way, don't you think?
beachgal: yes, much different
Blanchard: I guess so.
bayjoens: Remember the movie about the reunion of friends, with Glenn Close...?
Olle: The Big Chill
Blanchard: Oh yes!
beachgal: I think from the novel Eliza enjoyed it until it ended
wernoclue: I think so, too, Rema. But she didn't have any protection.
bayjoens: Rema, I think that Eliza and the artist started to enjoy it too much and they were wary of that danger.
dlee10: she thought he loved her
Blanchard: I think he did.
bayjoens: Deb, who? Eliza thought the artist loved her?
bayjoens: I think he could have, if they had let the relationship grow, but they didn't.
bayjoens: They both felt guilty about their feelings.
dlee10: I don't think he loved Eliza. He enjoyed her company but he was doing it for Rose ultimately
dlee10: Yes. I can't remember his name. Walker?
bayjoens: Deb, I think it started like that but he started to develop real feelings for her.
bayjoens: Nathaniel Walker?
Blanchard: His wife was?
dlee10: Walker was Rose's husband
Blanchard: Oh okay. I'm not so sure he still loved Rose by then.
Blanchard: I'm confusing Cass with Rose.
Blanchard: I never should read the books long before the chat. I lose it...
Olle: Can you see this book as a movie? Or is it too complicated a story?
Blanchard: it would have to be simplified a bit, don't you think?
Blanchard: oops. Lost Rema
wernoclue: WB, Rema!
wernoclue: That was quick!
Olle: quite a bit, but is there a screenplay there?
Blanchard: There you are Rema!
wernoclue: I could see it as a movie. Might have liked it better that way, too. LOL
Blanchard: Hard to say. It could be a romantic period piece but it's so long!
Olle: As far as the time jumping goes, if it was linear, would it be as interesting?
wernoclue: I don't know how they decide what to leave in and what to take out to make a book a movie.
beachgal: I was typing something but forgot what I wanted to say Senior moment
Blanchard: I'm with you Rema.
bayjoens: "I don't want it to end," he said finally, softly. "It's foolish, I know, but I feel -"
bayjoens: That was Nathaniel at the end of their week together.
Blanchard: she had more to offer him as an adult, don't you think?
bayjoens: Definitely, Betsy. Rose was so nearly nuts towards that point.
Blanchard: Rose was so very limited.
Blanchard: Talk about a one track mind! A guy has to feel like a stud by that time!
Blanchard: and I don't mean that as a good thing!
dlee10: She might have blossomed if she had stayed in NY with Nath.
bayjoens: But she still couldn't have children.
Blanchard: She might have but still short one element!
dlee10: she didn't know that though
bayjoens: Right but that part would have been the same no matter where they were.
Blanchard: She hadn't really developed as an adult mind.
Blanchard: Not explaining myself well here.
bayjoens: She had never been treated as an adult.
beachgal: Oh, I was goint to say before too bad she didn't see a psychiatrist to help her understand theat marriage was ok without children
bayjoens: No, I get it, Betsy. She never matured.
wernoclue: But would a psych in that day have said that, Rema?
dlee10: she never thought she would live to adult hood until Eliza came
Blanchard: Yes, but that's modern thinking, isn't it, Rema?
bayjoens: When we were first married, we had quite a few friends dealing iwth infertility issues. It can be all consuming.
beachgal: yes, you are all right
Blanchard: no psychs in those days.
beachgal: then having children was much more important for a woman
Blanchard: Freud came in when?
bayjoens: Honestly, I still think that is that important for modern women as well.
bayjoens: Not all, of course, but many.
wernoclue: Freud is early 20th century, right?
Blanchard: It can be but there are many women today who aren't defined by their reproduction.
Blanchard: I thought so.
dlee10: But for the most part there is no stigma if you find out that you can't have children
bayjoens: Many more so than in previous years, Betsy, but I think it can still be a painful process.
Olle: I read some book recently that said some of the treatments women had for various issues. Even if a doctor saw her, doubt any treatment would help.
Blanchard: It also can be that way too Sandra.
wernoclue: Oh, in Rose's situation she was definitely beyond help, wasn't she? Even by modern standards.
Olle: They tried putting all kinds of things into a woman...ugh.
Blanchard: I was about to say the same thing, Karen.
Blanchard: Let's not go there, pretty please?! lol.
bayjoens: Yes, true, Karen, but still so painful.
Olle: Beyond help?....
wernoclue: She couldn't have had children no matter what.
Olle: oh, right.
Blanchard: She was a damaged human being.
Blanchard: in all respects.
wernoclue: And that, too.
bayjoens: Have a friend who had breast cancer 25+ years ago and was treated successfully, but treatment was so harsh back then that she continues to have strokes and other issues today and is debilitated.
beachgal: Do you think it was caused by her mother
bayjoens: Rema, I don't think her mother helped at all.
Blanchard: Largely, I think so.
wernoclue: What, Rema? Her mental fragility?
bayjoens: Her mother probably stunted her emotional growth but the doctor and her father decided on the x-rays.
wernoclue: Didn't her mother baby her big time? Almost a Munchausen's sort of thing?
Blanchard: Oh yes!
bayjoens: Yes, Karen, but I don't think she took pleasure in it, was overprotective, It hink.
Blanchard: They took that child and did unbelievable things to her!
wernoclue: I just looked and it was October 2009 that I read this book. A LOT of the details are lost to me.
Blanchard: Over protection doesn't quite cover that woman's treatment of her dd!
dlee10: all for a thimble Even then they must have known the thimble was no big deal and would pass within a few days
Blanchard: I don't have that excuse, Karen, but it's just as lost to me.
wernoclue: Ah, see there -- that's one of the details that was lost! Thanks for the reminder, Deb!
bayjoens: Well Adelaide definitely had her own issues. :P
Blanchard: Oh yes!
Blanchard: The thimble! I knew that there was a reason for that xray or whatever it was!
wernoclue: So, before I copy the log and run away... How do you think you'd rate this? Did the chat improve your view, or diminish it?
dlee10: I thought that Adelaide was having some sort of relationship with the doctor and that had something to do with why he was called out so ofter
bayjoens: In some strange ways, Rose learned from her mother and was just as manipulative.
Blanchard: Turned her positively radioactive!
wernoclue: Ah, Deb, that seems to ring a bell, too...
beachgal: I did enjoy it, a 3.5
bayjoens: My only consolation there was that the doctor and dad must have received a whole bunch of that radiation too!
Blanchard: It helps a lot to discuss it. I agree with Rema: 3.5
bayjoens: More of a 3 for me, I think.
Blanchard: We could only hope Sandra.
bayjoens: 3.25 after the discussion.
Olle: thanks for the chat!
Blanchard: I have to go. Sorry. This was a great chat! Thank you!!
wernoclue: And thanks to all of you for coming!
bayjoens: I'm off too. Hilary wants to try cross-stitch so off to find one for her.
beachgal: yes, good chat. bye now. thanks